optics

kgoerz · 09-10-2011, 16:14

Amazing how they thought about putting some type of optic on their Weapons back then. But, my question is, why did that idea disappear for twenty years. Wonder if low power optics didn't have a Market back then. Didn't see optics on assault weapons again until the early nineties when Aimpoints arrived.

Pic is Billy K. Moore - one hell of an SF NCO and soldier. Richard

kgoerz · 09-10-2011, 16:17

DISCUSS! This is really bothering me

JJ_BPK · 09-10-2011, 17:59

I think they use the Singlepoint for the Son Tay Raid. It had a 16 MOA.. Great start for the red-dot industry,, by not practical for most hunters and mother Army.
A friend had one in the 70t's. If you used it for any period of time your eyes get blurry.

The US was way behind the curve on optics.

The Brit/IDF SUIT (sight unit infantry trilux) was a superior 4x scope, but still not a night vision product. The same with the German Hensoldt Z24.

**PRB** · 09-10-2011, 22:18

another reason...no money..remember Groups were 'going away' in the 70's and things didn't start turning around til the mid 80's.
I'd guess another reason is that most of us had no experience with wpn optics except for sniper systems....what you don't know is what you don't know.
Lastly, this buying 'off the shelf' is a relatively new attitude and did not exist years ago...we only got away with so much 'non issue' stuff...sounds lame now I know but I suspect that was some of the reasons why.

mojaveman · 09-10-2011, 22:51

There's actually a very informative thread on this exact subject over at the other site.

mark46th · 09-12-2011, 17:48

Kgoerz- Love the old picture. I was in C Co of the 5th with him. Had a lot of fun....

kgoerz · 09-13-2011, 17:06

whar other side. Is their some ultra secrete room I don't know about

**Ambush Master** · 09-13-2011, 17:36

We had the Singlepoints at CCC and I carried one on an OP, but it snagged on too much Jungle stuff!! I tried to buy one after I got out and they weren't being imported because of the Radioactive components inside!

kgoerz · 09-13-2011, 17:39

I remember the first time I ever saw a scope on a assaulter's weapon. It was during Just Cause. Not only did I think it was the best idea ever. It looked so freaking cool.

kgoerz · 09-13-2011, 17:45

Jerry Barnhart was actually involved in a lot of the early work that involved red dot type scopes on assault weapons. Competition shooters were actually the first ones to use them on a regular bases. So people who think competition shooting has nothing to do with our line of work. Think again. In the nineties they contributed greatly to SF Combat Marksmanship Programs. He still contributes today to our programs.

Richard · 09-13-2011, 17:59

Fragility and expense during several periods of severe budgetary and force reductions were MAJOR Army-wide issues back then.

Richard

Sinister · 09-13-2011, 19:36

SF was part of "Conventional" US Army budgeting until the Nunn-Cohen Act established USSOCOM with separate MFP-11 Special Operations Service-like spending authority in 1987. If it wasn't standard Army issue (with the exception of classified funding) you didn't get it.

The 80s was the beginning of the era of gear that "Folds up small, rolls out big, weighs nothing, in outrageous colors no one in the Leg Army has."

SOPMOD didn't get established until the early 90s.

kgoerz · 09-15-2011, 21:31

I find this interesting. Because I work at the MARSOC Q-Course. We are only in our 5th Q-Course here. They are having the same growing pains described above. The students always ask me how do they compare to SF.
I tell them. There is no comparison. I'm not talking about operational skills.
I always have to explain how big SF and the Army is. MARSOC is only three battalions in size. . The USMC is small. So MARSOC do's not have a ocean of resources to pull from for recruits. I always explain the fights we use to have with big Army. Much like the fights they are having with traditional USMC and old school Force Recon.
I tell them, as founding members of this unit. They have a fight on their hands.