Philly Police Harass, Threaten to Shoot Man Legally Carrying Gun

[olhamada]

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/st...y-carrying-gun

Even though he was "legal" - yet another example of a lack of SA. Almost lost his life over his "rights".

[Pete]

Originally Posted by olhamada

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/st...y-carrying-gun

Even though he was "legal" - yet another example of a lack of SA. Almost lost his life over his "rights".

Another example of a cop escalating a situation because he does not know the law.

Good thing it was recorded.

So now who do you believe? The cop or the civilian? The cop says the guys hands were in his pockets - the guys says they were not.

The cops seemed to have a problem with the recording also - but at least they didn't smash the device.

[Roguish Lawyer]

I hope this guy sued the city. Totally outrageous.

[rdret1]

By the audio alone, I would agree that the officers were unprofessional. In NC, a CCW permit holder must state that they have the permit and where the fire arm is located upon contact with an officer. NC is also an "open carry" state. My personal SOP on encountering someone in these situations is to ask them to allow me to take control of the weapon until the end of the enounter. One gun (mine) is enough in a situation. I have never had anyone refuse to allow this and have done it numerous times. At the end of the encounter, I always give them the firearm back. If it is a SA, I give it to them with the magazine out and the slide locked back. If it is a revolver, the rounds are in one hand and the cylinder is out. I then allow them to leave the scene first, with instructions to wait until they are in another area to reload their firearm. This method has worked for me for the past 13 years.

My wife and I are both also CCW holders and she has been well rehearsed in what to say and do if she were ever to be stopped by an officer. I don't know about PA, but in NC, when an officer runs someone's license or registration in NCIC, the information cmes back whether that person has a NC CCW permit or not, so the officer knows if you have one before he ever comes up to your door.

[tonyz]

Originally Posted by rdret1

My personal SOP on encountering someone in these situations is to ask them to allow me to take control of the weapon until the end of the enounter. One gun (mine) is enough in a situation. I have never had anyone refuse to allow this and have done it numerous times. At the end of the encounter, I always give them the firearm back. If it is a SA, I give it to them with the magazine out and the slide locked back. If it is a revolver, the rounds are in one hand and the cylinder is out. I then allow them to leave the scene first, with instructions to wait until they are in another area to reload their firearm. This method has worked for me for the past 13 years.

That description sounds like a very reasonable and very professional manner of handling the situation.

Any suggestions that you might share with civilians who ever find themselves in this situation would be appreciated - at least by me. PM or otherwise. Thank you.

Wow, that's some serious case of jumping the gun on the LEO's.
Sgt. "I dunno what I'm doing" should definitely be assigned to a desk job, fellas like him don't need to be on the streets.
I don't have a lifetime experience, I've only been in the law enforcement field for 7 years. But I've seen people like him, I've found myself working with them and not only I consider them a threat waiting to come true, but also bad image for all.
Note: why should Mr. Fiorino sue the city? Why should taxpayers refund him for the police officer's wrongdoing and lack of professionalism? If legal action needs to be started, let it be against him not the whole community.

[Utah Bob]

Philadelphia PD has had internal problems for a long time.

[olhamada]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Anybody remember Robin Sage and 1LT Tomeny?

....or the US Army Ranger with a CCP shot to death by the 4 LEOs outside the Costco in Las Vegas last year?

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by rdret1

..One gun (mine) is enough in a situation...

I feel the same when talking with the majority of LEO...

Crip

[Richard]

Originally Posted by olhamada

Philly Police Harass, Threaten to Shoot Man Legally Carrying Gun

They didn't tell you he was wearing a Cowboys jersey with the number 8 on it, did they.

Richard

[olhamada]

Originally Posted by Richard

They didn't tell you he was wearing a Cowboys jersey with the number 8 on it, did they.

Richard

HA! My sentiments exactly.

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

I feel the same when talking with the majority of LEO...

Crip

Daaang gents, it feels goood to receive sympathy...

[Pete]

Open-Carry Experiment Shows Cops Don't Know Their Own Gun Laws

Read more: http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/ne...#ixzz1MhQyFb8t


".......The other factor contributing to cops’ confusion is that according to state law, a license is needed to carry openly in the city, but it’s not required in the rest of the commonwealth. Because of that, officers don’t technically have cause to detain an open carrier without reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime having been committed. But in Philly, because a license is needed, law enforcement officers contend they have authority to stop people to make sure they’re legit. Gun-rights activists take issue with this, saying probable cause is still required for a police stop. They liken it to driving: Officers aren’t legally allowed to stop everyone who is driving a car to ensure they’re licensed, unless a violation has been committed............."

The fact he is a gun rights activist will change some peoples mind - not mine.

Near the end

".........Lt. Lisa King, head of the department’s Gun Permits Unit, said her division is now working to amend language on a supplemental sheet accompanying the firearms license application that says a licensee must conceal. The wording on is old, she concedes. King, who attended the rally, says didn’t even know the practice was legal before it was brought to her attention............"

Wonder how that little bit will play out in an open carry state?

[rdret1]

Originally Posted by tonyz

That description sounds like a very reasonable and very professional manner of handling the situation.

Any suggestions that you might share with civilians who ever find themselves in this situation would be appreciated - at least by me. PM or otherwise. Thank you.

If you are a CCW holder:
1. As soon as an officer approaches, even before he first speaks to you, keep your hands where they can be seen and inform him that you have a CCW whether you have your firearm with you or not. In NC, this is actually part of the law and responsibility of the CCW carrier.

2. If you have your firearm, tell the officer where it is (holstered on your hip, in the glove compartment, between the seats, etc.). KEEP YOUR HANDS WHERE THEY CAN BE SEEN! Never reach for the firearm while saying "it is right here." NEVER APPEAR TO BE REACHING FOR SOMETHING UNSEEN BY THE OFFICER. This includes while the officer is approaching your vehicle.

3. Follow the officer's instructions. Some will ask you to exit the vehicle and either leave the weapon where it is or do like I do and ask to take possession of the firearm. Do not attempt to give the firearm to the officer, let the officer take it from you. Your hands should never come in proximity of the weapon.

4. No matter what the stop is for, maintain your composure and a cooperative, respectful attitude. This does not mean that you have to give permission to have your vehicle searched if you do not want to. That is a seperate issue from the legal possession of a firearm. You can decline the request for search consent while still cooperating within CCW law constraints.

Law enforcement, like any other occupation, has those who may specialize in certain areas while being relatively unfamiliar with other areas. The fact that some officers are unfamiliar with some firearms laws is indicative of that. Some officers can barely qualify every year or semi-annually, whichever their department requires. Some officers are experts at juvenile law, some with domestic law, others with traffic or firearms, etc.

Each officer tends to gravitate toward that which interests them the most. It is unreasonable to expect an individual officer to be familiar with the hundreds, or even thousands, of laws which may apply in their specific jurisdiction, not to mention the fact that these laws tend to change or be amended every election cycle. Most departments tend to focus training on the issues they view as the most important at the time. Usually, these are drugs; break-ins; assaults; homicides; or whatever the citizenry is complaining about the most at the time.

Some departments restrict the actions of their officers, compartmentalizing the training and experience. Traffic units only deal with traffic; warrants are only written by detectives; patrol only answers calls and take initial reports; etc. (fortunately, my department is not like this).

In my experience, it is easy to understand how some officers may not have been familiar with PA's firearms laws. It is not, however, an excuse to act unprofessionally. I am sure there were other officers on the shift who were familiar and could have answered questions if they had been asked.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by rdret1

................Law enforcement, like any other occupation, has those who may specialize in certain areas while being relatively unfamiliar with other areas. The fact that some officers are unfamiliar with some firearms laws is indicative of that.r.................

If the local cops don't understand the city's gun laws how the hell do they expect a civilian to understand them?

I can understand a cop not being up on minor local laws but guns and drugs?

How can local government expect to enforce laws if the cops don't know them?