Welfare State: Handouts Make Up One-Third of U.S. Wages

[Pete]

Welfare State: Handouts Make Up One-Third of U.S. Wages

http://www.cnbc.com/id/41969508

"Government payouts—including Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance—make up more than a third of total wages and salaries of the U.S. population, a record figure that will only increase if action isn’t taken before the majority of Baby Boomers enter retirement......................."

While this story covers everything I'll bet including government pensions I'll like to remake a point I made a couple of years back about the bailouts.

"Create or save jobs"???????????????

They took the money to pay teachers and other public sector workers pay raises - like out in CA. Thats why Obama wants more education money in the buget. It's to continue to pay for the raises. When the federal government has to stop paying those public sector workers are going to take a huge hit.

The house of cards is getting a bit shakey.

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by Pete

Welfare State: Handouts Make Up One-Third of U.S. Wages

http://www.cnbc.com/id/41969508

"Government payouts—including Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance—make up more than a third of total wages and salaries of the U.S. population, a record figure that will only increase if action isn’t taken before the majority of Baby Boomers enter retirement......................."

While this story covers everything I'll bet including government pensions I'll like to remake a point I made a couple of years back about the bailouts.

"Create or save jobs"???????????????

They took the money to pay teachers and other public sector workers pay raises - like out in CA. Thats why Obama wants more education money in the buget. It's to continue to pay for the raises. When the federal government has to stop paying those public sector workers are going to take a huge hit.

The house of cards is getting a bit shakey.

Inflationary wage/price spiral incoming.

Those who produce (private sector) goods and services will demand higher after-tax wage rates.
Given that there will be few of them (percentage-wise), they will be in a position to make such demands.

[Scimitar]

"Men have to be governed"
+1 if you can tell me where that quote comes from.

In this case they need to be governed by good old fear, if you want life, liberty and happiness feel free to fight for it, if you don't feel free to die or be a slave, pick one. I may not be a evolutionist, but I'm sure as damn a Social Darwinist.

Having done business and lived in a capitalistic country as well as a heavily socialist one I can tell you this much as an opinion.

1. - Handouts cause the breakdown in family. If you've only got your family to help in times of trouble, the greater family unit stays together a hell of alot better

2. - Handouts of all sorts take away the sub-lethal stimuli that all systems need to survive.
i.e. Make it too easy and the unit (in this case human) doesn't need to adapt any more. You're either adapting or dieing, which one are we doing as a nation?

Now don't get me wrong hand-outs have their place, but we're already way too far into in IMHO, now Obama nation wants to add more....

A favourite anaolgy comes to mind.

Running a country is like farming, It's a dirty job, The Dems live in this utopia dream land where their goal is for a perfect society. Farming ain't about perfection, it's about getting the damn job done. Ever tried farming without dirt!

I see this a lot with business grads, they'll run their department perfectly, and perfectly run it down the drain, or instead they learn that chaos is their friend and focus on the damn goal, The goal aint perfection it's production.

We're in one big competitive environment, and I tell you what we're losing our competitive advantage as a nation.

Just my $0.02

Scimitar

[alelks]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

"Men have to be governed"
+1 if you can tell me where that quote comes from.

Depends. If it's the full quote "Men still have to be governed by deception" that that would be:

Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (1 July 1742 – 24 February 1799) who was a German scientist, satirist and Anglophile.

or


"Men are not governed by justice, but by law or persuasion. When they refuse to be governed by law or persuasion, they have to be governed by force or fraud, or both."
- George Bernard Shaw

[Last hard class]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

"Men have to be governed"
+1 if you can tell me where that quote comes from.

My Wife.


LHC

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by Scimitar

1.- Handouts cause the breakdown in family. If you've only got your family to help in times of trouble, the greater family unit stays together a hell of alot better

2. - Handouts of all sorts take away the sub-lethal stimuli that all systems need to survive.
i.e. Make it too easy and the unit (in this case human) doesn't need to adapt any more. You're either adapting or dieing, which one are we doing as a nation?

Handouts are fungible.
If the gov't pays for my food, housing, and healthcare, I can spend any money I make on drugs/alcohol.

Addicts won't stop when they are protected from consequences by enablers.
Uncle Sam is the biggest enabler.

Effectively, they are trading drugs for votes.
It is cruel and wrong.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Pete

Welfare State: Handouts Make Up One-Third of U.S. Wages

http://www.cnbc.com/id/41969508

"Government payouts—including Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance—make up more than a third of total wages and salaries of the U.S. population, a record figure that will only increase if action isn’t taken before the majority of Baby Boomers enter retirement......................."

While this story covers everything I'll bet including government pensions I'll like to remake a point I made a couple of years back about the bailouts.

"Create or save jobs"???????????????

They took the money to pay teachers and other public sector workers pay raises - like out in CA. Thats why Obama wants more education money in the buget. It's to continue to pay for the raises. When the federal government has to stop paying those public sector workers are going to take a huge hit.

The house of cards is getting a bit shakey.

Pete,

I don't consider Social Security or Medicare handouts........ The money I receive from these accounts I've paid into all my life,in fact I'm still paying into both since I'm working a part time job........

Big Teddy

[Pete]

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

Pete,

I don't consider Social Security or Medicare handouts........ The money I receive from these accounts I've paid into all my life,in fact I'm still paying into both since I'm working a part time job........

Big Teddy

Just wait until SS enacts a means cap on benifits (some people are talking about that issue right now). The higher earners paying the most in SS taxes will find out they get nothing.

And the common folks will chear and say they don't need it, they're rich.

The problem with that "soak the rich" line of thinking is once the line has been drawn its very easy to lower it.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

Pete,

I don't consider Social Security or Medicare handouts........ The money I receive from these accounts I've paid into all my life,in fact I'm still paying into both since I'm working a part time job........

Big Teddy

And the money you paid in is gone. Turned into IOUs at the Treasury by politicians.

The money you are receiving is being paid by your kids, and eventually your grandkids.

If you live till your normal life expectancy, you will get a lot more back than you paid in. Especially when you consider all of the young unemployed people collecting Social Security disability payments for 40 or 50 years.

Ponzi scheme.

TR

[GratefulCitizen]

MOO- there should be two "tiers" of pensions in this country.

Early tier:
This should be available to professions where the person is putting themselves in harm's way for the benefit of everyone else (military, LE, emergency services).
The logic being that people in such professions should be encouraged to spend the strength of their youth for maximum effectiveness in the immediate.

Late tier:
This is for everyone else.
The logic being that everyone else should efficiently meter their strength and take care of their own health for maximum effectiveness over the long haul.

Incentives need to match the desired results.
Probably preaching to the choir on this, but it still makes sense.

[kgoerz]

Until it gets really bad nothing will change. But when drastic changes do come, you watch. It will be the working people who end up suffering the most. Higher Taxes, lower pay and benefits. It's funny, my financial situation was the same this tax year as the last. But my state refund was cut 80%. My Fed refund was 60% less. I also paid about $ 4000 more in this year.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by kgoerz

It will be the working people who end up suffering the most.

In that case, the unions have nothing to worry about.

(Did that sound bitter?)

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

And the money you paid in is gone. Turned into IOUs at the Treasury by politicians.

According to a 2005 Cato article:

It's the ultimate insult. Congress spends our Social Security taxes then expects us to pay more taxes to repay its borrowing. To date, Congress has borrowed and spent more than $1.7 trillion of Social Security taxes. This year it will borrow another $60 billion.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3970

A growing number of Public employees are pissed because State Governments are messing with their guaranteed pensions......I would say Social Security will follow suite in the near future and much of the protest we see and will see is endorsed/pimped by the Head Agitator that resides in the oval office.

Personally I don't think it is right to 'contribute' to something under the guise that your going to get a return when in fact I will likely be left in same fashion as Bernie Madolfs investors. And secondly I don't believe I should have my taxes raised to support the outlandish pensions/benefits of public sector workers.

On the other side of the coin many of those same public sector workers, entitlement beneficiaries and their agitators feel the solution to the financial woes is to raise taxes on the private sector.


As far as I am concerned we can all suck it up and suffer through this together or we can have one hell of a bloody brawl.

[Scimitar]

Originally Posted by alelks

Depends. If it's the full quote "Men still have to be governed by deception" that that would be:

Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (1 July 1742 – 24 February 1799) who was a German scientist, satirist and Anglophile.

or


"Men are not governed by justice, but by law or persuasion. When they refuse to be governed by law or persuasion, they have to be governed by force or fraud, or both."
- George Bernard Shaw

Show off

I was quoting Russell Crowe on "Master and Commander" but I like your high brow stuff better.

[Buffalobob]

I don't consider Social Security or Medicare handouts........ The money I receive from these accounts I've paid into all my life,in fact I'm still paying into both since I'm working a part time job........

Big Teddy

Me too!!! Every quarter I pay my estimated taxes and settle it up at the end of the year. I have a part time consulting business because despite what the run off at the mouth people say, I'm not rich from my retirement pension.

I have seen three studies on our generation (Vietnam era) and SS benefits. One study says we will die without getting out what we paid in. One study says we will just about break even on what we paid in. Last study says we are parasites. So if you average them out you get about a break even situation, but that doesn't sell well with some political factions.

But bottom line to me is that this is not a handout any more than military retirement pay is a handout or VA services to a wounded vet. We all did what was asked and put in the time or money that was asked and now that it is time for us to receive what we we paid for. People want to run their mouths for long periods of time to justify cheating us.