02-01-2011, 17:40
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#1
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: CONUS
Posts: 403
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NYC mayor conducts gun-sale sting in Arizona
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35NCO is offline
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02-01-2011, 17:46
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 2,531
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Publicity stunt by an egomaniac who can't get his own city under control...
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""A man must know his destiny. if he does not recognize it, then he is lost. By this I mean, once, twice, or at the very most, three times, fate will reach out and tap a man on the shoulder. if he has the imagination, he will turn around and fate will point out to him what fork in the road he should take, if he has the guts, he will take it.""- GEN George S. Patton
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lksteve is offline
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02-01-2011, 17:53
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,805
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Can a LEO travel over a thousand miles away and do uncoordinated undercover purchases of firearms in another state without breaking the law?
Where is the BATFE and local LE?
Things must be different in AZ. At gun shows in NC, I cannot recall seeing anyone selling privately owned weapons at a table. A few would be walking around with a gun or two with "for sale" signs on them, but I thought that renting a table and plunking down several weapons to sell made you a dealer, and that required an FFL or C&R, with the associated paperwork and NICS requirement?
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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02-01-2011, 18:33
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,279
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Bloomberg (sp) is the complete narcissist. Worse yet he is the complete political
narcissist that believes he is on a holy mission to save all of us unenlightened types from oursleves.
We are just too stupid to see his magnificent genius.
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PRB is offline
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02-01-2011, 21:39
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#5
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 69
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From the article, apparently ATF has sent Bloomberg a letter in the past asking him not to conduct undercover purchases. Also, he asked the buyers to get Glock 9mm (19's I assume) and 33 round mags. Never let a crisis go to waste, huh? 
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wch84 is offline
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02-01-2011, 21:50
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#6
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 505
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How about getting the city for another snowstorm Mike and making sure the premadonna drivers at sanitation don't whine and bitch for having to work overtime on their six figure salary during a storm? How about that Mike?
Last edited by Wiseman; 02-01-2011 at 22:32.
Reason: syntax
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Wiseman is offline
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02-01-2011, 22:33
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#7
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: CONUS
Posts: 403
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I see we are all in agreement on this one. This is very personal to me. A family friend of mine owns a big gun shop in PA. A few years ago so called “undercover agents” went into the gun store and bought a couple pistols. They were New York residents. Which in itself there is nothing illegal there. But, it turns out the agents work for the NYC police and since they were able to drive the guns back into the city, this was a crime in some way. The gun store owner got into a legal battle about it, but just ended up paying the fines. Obviously I left a lot of detail out of this story for the parties own protection. What gets me is I thought this was just some crazy isolated incident. The PA town is not far from NYC. I cannot believe Bloomberg has the nerve to just go to any state and do this! This is not even remotely legal in any aspect.
Now the whole “gunshow loophole” is completely ridiculous. I have been going to gun shows with my father since I was a little kid. Never in at least 15 years of going have I seen anyone ever sell a gun without paperwork. However, one important thing to note is that in some states, PA for example you can legally sell any long rifle person to person without paperwork. The state recommends a bill of sale, but that’s up to the buyer and seller. The only thing that is illegal to sell without a dealer is a pistol.
On the Reapers note about selling multiple guns at a show without paperwork I think in some states that could be legal. As long as they are long guns. I have never heard of a state where a pistol can be legally bought without paperwork and age requirements. For a person to do this, it would not be someone who does it on a regular basis. For example it might be a one time thing where someone moves, needs money and decides to sell off all their long arms in a day. I am just saying this in theory could be legal in some states. Remember though, I am not a lawyer in any manner. I am not recommending this. Do your own research and you will see what I am talking about.
So that’s both sides of it. Either way it is very upsetting. I just can not fathom how the BATFE lets Bloomberg continue to do this. He is just a mayor, he is not above the law, in any state, including his own.
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35NCO is offline
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02-02-2011, 00:24
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#8
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
Posts: 590
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I think Reaper was referring to Federal Law (FFL)...and I think he is right about the Dealer classification.
Also thought AZ had issues about out of state ID's, evidently not.
Gotta wonder what kind of brain surgeon would sell a handgun to someone who said 'don't think I'd pass the background check' and not ask why?
They always ask me for my ccw...
Too bad they didn't do it in Maricopa Co., Sheriff Arpaio would be all over it!
love that guy...
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Denial and inactivity prepare people well for roles of victim and corpse
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badshot is offline
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02-02-2011, 03:46
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#9
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Guerrilla
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin BCM territory
Posts: 152
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Let me shed some light on some things. Under Arizona law private citizens may sell their firearms to another private party (face to face sale) as long as they do not have reason to believe that the person is a prohibited person.
This includes gun shows. The only people required to conduct background checks at gun shows are licensed dealers. There is no such thing as an unlicensed dealer- that is Bloombergs feeble way of cracking at private sales.
Arizona law makes no mention of selling a firearm to someone out of state. That's because federal law already spells it out. You cannot purchase a handgun out of state unless the transaction is conducted through a licensed dealer. Long guns can be purchased out of state but as far as I am aware they must be conducted through a dealer as well. Some states do not allow this though such as California and Idaho.
If you look at the videos on their website the sellers asked for an Arizona ID and both times it was presented (at least according to their video).
The questions that need to be asked is whether or not they obtained Arizona ID's fraudulently.
Did they use local people to facilitate the sale?
Did they in fact violate federal law by conducting a straw purchase?
In the past the BATFE had told Bloomberg not to do such stuff. Now is someone going to do something or will he and his morons get a free pass?
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Iraqgunz is offline
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02-02-2011, 03:47
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#10
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Guerrilla
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin BCM territory
Posts: 152
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The guy could have been joking. It hard to say. Rule of thumb is not to make a sale if you feel something isn't right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badshot
I think Reaper was referring to Federal Law (FFL)...and I think he is right about the Dealer classification.
Also thought AZ had issues about out of state ID's, evidently not.
Gotta wonder what kind of brain surgeon would sell a handgun to someone who said 'don't think I'd pass the background check' and not ask why?
They always ask me for my ccw...
Too bad they didn't do it in Maricopa Co., Sheriff Arpaio would be all over it!
love that guy...
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Iraqgunz is offline
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02-02-2011, 04:28
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NC/Baghdad, Iraq
Posts: 474
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Bloomberg needs to be arrested for straw purchases, period as it was he intention to do (break the law). As Iraqgunz states it is only federal law that you have to be 21 yo to by a handgun from a dealer and 18 yo for a longgun. States have their own requiremnets for ownership and individual sales. My kids owned guns when they were 2-5 yos old as it was legal in the state. When I grew up in Texas I bought my first firearm from a individual at the age of 16.
CD
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Combat Diver is offline
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02-02-2011, 05:32
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#12
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: CONUS
Posts: 403
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Link to the videos Iraqgunz was talking about :
http://www.gunshowundercover.org/
Warning, the webpage may make you want to smash something!
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35NCO is offline
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02-02-2011, 10:23
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#13
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
Posts: 590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NCO
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Webpage just reaffirms my thoughts (and scientific evidence) of the damaged lefty gene pool. Its kinda sad they can't quite think straight and try to compensate by spending more time in school, less time in reality.
Thanks 35NCO and Iraqgunz for the info...I only purchase weapons from dealers; like a paper trail.
Side note related to video on website: How many of you guys would have gottin' an ass rippin' for calling a magazine a 'clip'? (no comment needed)
Sounds like a sloppy joint op of lefty sheriff and lefty mayor...
Hopefully ATF will realize the warning letters aren't working...
.
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Δεν είμαι άξιος του σταυρού του Ιησού οπή, Andreas
Denial and inactivity prepare people well for roles of victim and corpse
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badshot is offline
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02-02-2011, 13:57
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#14
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iraqgunz
You cannot purchase a handgun out of state unless the transaction is conducted through a licensed dealer.
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Insofar as Internet or phone sales are concerned, that is correct. And then you have to pick them up from your local FFL, who will then run the checks as normal.
However, you cannot physically show up and purchase handguns outside of your state of residence from a licensed dealer at all. Laws may be different for LEOs or Mil folks, but I don't know about that. There are also local laws to consider as well.
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DJ Urbanovsky is offline
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02-02-2011, 17:12
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#15
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Asset
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Delaware County, PA
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Diver
Bloomberg needs to be arrested for straw purchases, period as it was he intention to do (break the law). As Iraqgunz states it is only federal law that you have to be 21 yo to by a handgun from a dealer and 18 yo for a longgun. States have their own requiremnets for ownership and individual sales. My kids owned guns when they were 2-5 yos old as it was legal in the state. When I grew up in Texas I bought my first firearm from a individual at the age of 16.
CD
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I think Virginia passed, or tried to pass, a law that says failure to disclose you are an LEO when buying a gun is a felony. Not sure if it went through, though.
They did this in response to Bloomberg sending his guys down there in his sting a few years ago.
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ReefBlue is offline
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