01-12-2011, 17:59
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#1
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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Jogger Stands His Ground against Attacker
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"There you go, again." Ronald Reagan
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Dusty is offline
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01-12-2011, 18:15
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#2
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 87
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Quote:
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Prosecutors said Tuesday they are convinced Thomas Baker acted in self defense when he fired eight shots at 18-year-old Carlos Mustelier near Tampa in November.
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Quote:
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Baker told police he reached for his gun when the teen punched him in the face.
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I'm not saying that anybody was wrong here, but 8 shots seems to be an awfully strong response to being punched in the face.
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silentreader is offline
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01-12-2011, 18:27
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentreader
I'm not saying that anybody was wrong here, but 8 shots seems to be an awfully strong response to being punched in the face.
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Let's say you are 6'5", and weigh 260, and I am 5'5" and 65 years old. You attack me while I am jogging at night and say that you are going to kill me.
How many times do you think I should legally be required to let you hit me in the head before I am allowed to draw my weapon and defend myself?
Kind Sir, may I do so before I lose consciousness, and my gun?
When I shoot, I use as many rounds as necessary to neutralize the threat. Some situations may only require one round, and some might require a mag or two. How many do you think is appropriate? One? Two? Six?
You seem to be lacking a basic knowledge of lethal force application. I think that based on the report, the actions were reasonable and consistent with his right to self defense.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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01-12-2011, 18:40
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Maybe - if you're at a frat party......
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentreader
I'm not saying that anybody was wrong here, but 8 shots seems to be an awfully strong response to being punched in the face.
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Maybe - if you're at a frat party - drunk and are playing slap face with other drunks.
Jumping out on someone minding their own busines and punching them in the face as a first step to ............. what? I think the punk got what was coming.
What if it was your 17 year old daughter and he was just going to knock her out, drag her to some out of the way place and rape her?
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Pete is offline
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01-12-2011, 18:56
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Georgetown, SC
Posts: 4,204
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I know of a person who was struck once to the side of his head, fell to the ground, hit his head on the curb, and never got up!
Once is too many! Blast away, sir!
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ZonieDiver is offline
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01-12-2011, 18:58
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentreader
I'm not saying that anybody was wrong here, but 8 shots seems to be an awfully strong response to being punched in the face.
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Yes, you are.
And a "strong response" is exactly what is ALWAYS necessary when the decision is made to utilize your firearm for personal defense.
You do not shoot to warn, nor shoot to wound. You discharge your weapon until you are satisfied that they are no longer a threat.
Basic rules of firearm use...only point your weapon at something you are willing to destroy.
Eagle
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Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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01-12-2011, 19:20
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Hopemills, NC
Posts: 52
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Personally, I think the state of Florida should make the deceased's parents pay to replace the shooter's ammunition...
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GrumpyMedic is offline
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01-12-2011, 19:49
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#8
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Asset
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyMedic
Personally, I think the state of Florida should make the deceased's parents pay to replace the shooter's ammunition...
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They do that in China for executions.
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wandering_idiot is offline
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01-12-2011, 19:51
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentreader
I'm not saying that anybody was wrong here, but 8 shots seems to be an awfully strong response to being punched in the face.
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It's midnight, you are assaulted by an unknown assailant, you shoot to kill, to save your life.....is he armed, you don't know but at that hour what does one assume.
If someone unknown to me and for no reason punches me in the face I assume the worst and kill them. You kill them beyond a shadow of a doubt, reload a fresh clip, clear 360 then call 911....practice that and do not think in terms of 'measured response' ....measured response gets one dead quickly.
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PRB is offline
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01-12-2011, 21:03
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#10
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BANNED USER
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentreader
I'm not saying that anybody was wrong here, but 8 shots seems to be an awfully strong response to being punched in the face.
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Probably has a sloppy re-load. He's alive, he can work on it.
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Dozer523 is offline
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01-12-2011, 21:27
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southern Mo
Posts: 1,541
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Silentreader,
I see that you are about to ship out for basic training. Outstanding.
Keep one thing in mind, if you ever have to use your weapon. People don't always realize that they are supposed to fall down and die, just because you put a bullet in them. The phrase used when I was in the service was "Drive 'em down", meaning keep pulling the damned trigger until you were sure Mr. Bad Guy was down and unable to hurt you or your fellow soldiers.
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"And how can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his gods?"
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"One man with courage makes a majority." Andrew Jackson
"Well Mr. Carpetbagger. We got something in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."
Josey Wales
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craigepo is offline
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01-12-2011, 22:12
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#12
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: HQ - SSPL
Posts: 156
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Quote:
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The teen was hit four times in the chest, back and buttocks.
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Not at all excessive. Have to wonder which 4 missed their target - first 4? A good reminder of why it's nice to have decent clip capacity. Similar circumstances but with two assailants could have had a very different outcome.
Glad to see Mr. Baker's rights upheld.
-out
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Defend is offline
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01-12-2011, 22:16
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#13
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 87
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Gentlemen,
First of all, good points. The decision to draw and shoot a gun at a human should always be a decision to kill, and the jogger was completely justified in making that decision upon being punched in the face.
Here's an article with a little more detail. You guys were spot on; he assumed his assailant was armed, he cleared 360 (covers the other kid while he ran away) and he called the police. The prosecutor was right to let this kid off without punishment.
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silentreader is offline
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01-12-2011, 22:40
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silentreader
I'm not saying that anybody was wrong here, but 8 shots seems to be an awfully strong response to being punched in the face.
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I guess law-abiding citizens will NO longer have too worry about this guy robbing them in the future.
Lesson learned for/by future thugs: "Don't go around punching and attempting too rob people jogging at night, you just might get more than you bargained for!"
Stay safe.
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-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
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Guy is offline
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01-12-2011, 22:52
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Wonder what he was using for a holster? Might be something useful there. 
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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