12-28-2010, 05:44
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Red State
Posts: 3,774
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Special forces wary of 'don't ask, don't tell' repeal
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Don't mess with old farts...age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience.
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BMT (RIP) is offline
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12-28-2010, 05:54
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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One gay troop
Is one lower ranking gay team guy worth more than the Team Sergeant and Team Leader who tried to make him toe the line?
When Joe Blow - oh crap did I just hurt someone's feelings - runs to the IG about how he's treated on the team who do you think the CofC is going to back - after the congressional and special interest groups park outside the office.
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Pete is offline
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12-28-2010, 07:50
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#3
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 505
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How many homosexual men actually want to join SF?
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Wiseman is offline
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12-28-2010, 07:55
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#4
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
Posts: 10,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseman
How many homosexual men actually want to join SF?
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I assume both-that your question in rhetorical, and that your intent is to point out the abject stupidity of the premise.
Another question along that line: How many SF martyrs wouldn't mind a homo on their team?
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"There you go, again." Ronald Reagan
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Dusty is offline
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12-28-2010, 08:01
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#5
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Quiet Professional
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Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseman
How many homosexual men actually want to join SF?
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I'm sure SF ranks right up there with joining The Village People
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JJ_BPK is offline
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12-28-2010, 08:02
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#6
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 505
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BMT's article link refers to the fact that a lot of money would spent on writing policies regarding treatment of "openly gay" Soldier. The question is, if there are very few that actually attempt to go through the whole process, will it be worth for you guys given that attrition is very high during the selection process? When I say you guys, I mean the SF community. Since I am not part of that community, I would not know.
Last edited by Wiseman; 12-28-2010 at 08:06.
Reason: spelling
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Wiseman is offline
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12-28-2010, 08:20
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NC for now
Posts: 2,418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseman
How many homosexual men actually want to join SF?
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I have known two for sure. A couple of others wasn't so sure. Never had any issues. They kept their private life to themselves just as much as anyone else. Thats why I just don't see this repeal effecting our community. Were professionals. We serve as SF first. There will probably be one or two Spec Op's guys that come out to make a point, could be any unit, SEALS, Rangers, SF...etc.
The regular Army will have some problems. But thats why I didn't serve in the regular Army. We all have choices.
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kgoerz is offline
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12-28-2010, 08:37
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#8
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RIP Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Ozarks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgoerz
I have known two for sure. A couple of others wasn't so sure. Never had any issues. They kept their private life to themselves just as much as anyone else.
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Then they weren't "openly gay", correct?
There's gonna be a big difference, IMO; even in SF.
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"There you go, again." Ronald Reagan
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Dusty is offline
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12-28-2010, 09:41
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseman
BMT's article link refers to the fact that a lot of money would spent on writing policies regarding treatment of "openly gay" Soldier. The question is, if there are very few that actually attempt to go through the whole process, will it be worth for you guys given that attrition is very high during the selection process? When I say you guys, I mean the SF community. Since I am not part of that community, I would not know.
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Attrition rates (promotion rates, any other personnel action statistic, etc., etc.) only apply to individuals that are not members of "protected" classes. Don't look now but quotas are alive and well - even within the SOF community (yes; I did use SOF, SF aren't the only people facing this problem).
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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12-28-2010, 09:48
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#10
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Location: NorCal
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You mean subjectivity is an established component in the selection and evaluation processes for SOF? I'm shocked. 
And so it goes...
Richard 
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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12-28-2010, 12:11
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgoerz
I have known two for sure. A couple of others wasn't so sure. Never had any issues. They kept their private life to themselves just as much as anyone else. Thats why I just don't see this repeal effecting our community. Were professionals. We serve as SF first. There will probably be one or two Spec Op's guys that come out to make a point, could be any unit, SEALS, Rangers, SF...etc.
The regular Army will have some problems. But thats why I didn't serve in the regular Army. We all have choices.
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That is because of thre rules and policies that were in place then. Anyone who kept it private was free to serve. This is going to allow those who want to be openly gay and proud of it to serve.
Whole new ballgame coming now. In your face behavior will be not just okay, but impossible to complain about without being painted an intolerant homophobe.
Wiseman, as soon as the first openly gay candidate is not selected, he will be on the phone to his Congresscritter the same day and the selection letter will be in the mail within 72 hours. Bet on it.
Look at the only female to attend SF training and be awarded a certificate. She got the diploma only after legal action and political intervention.
If the people making these decisions knew how the promotion system actually works with quotas, AKA "goals", they might be more cautious about creating another protected group.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-28-2010, 12:12
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pineland, Northern Province
Posts: 600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino
Attrition rates (promotion rates, any other personnel action statistic, etc., etc.) only apply to individuals that are not members of "protected" classes. Don't look now but quotas are alive and well - even within the SOF community (yes; I did use SOF, SF aren't the only people facing this problem).
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Actually, we are all members of a protected class because we all fall under specific ethnic, gender, religious or racial catagories. Therefore, if you're a white male protestant, you are protected. But, if you decided to come out of the closet, you'd fall into an unprotected catagory.
Other catagories which are not protected such as age, disability, women for certain type jobs, and for the next six months or more, gays are therefore legaly discriminated against in the military. For instance, if I know you're physicaly disabled and unable to work on the ODA, I'm not going to recommend you for certain schools, and or perhaps a promotion above your peers, BUT if I know you're black, white, Jewish, Mormon, or any other protected class, I can't exclude you, or treat any different in regard to any administrative actions. Soon this will include gays.
You have now checked your EO block, and no I won't be giving gay awareness training...jd
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uplink5 is offline
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12-28-2010, 12:41
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
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Everybody in SOF understands that to be in the ' open' is to be in a danger area, and I'm thinking that anyone who is gay and has enough SA to be in SOF in the first place will continue to have enough SA to weigh the merits of avoiding the Lorelei's lure of ' openness' for the time being.
Richard
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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12-28-2010, 12:42
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#14
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Asset
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: the heartland USA
Posts: 16
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The U.S. Army survived and thrived for 218 years prior to DADT - certainly there were homosexuals who served during those years - the other military services also survived and thrived for many years prior to DADT. I am unsure if the repearl of DADT is really worth getting spun up about.
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Vincere vel mori
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TrueBeliever is offline
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12-28-2010, 12:49
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#15
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBeliever
The U.S. Army survived and thrived for 218 years prior to DADT - certainly there were homosexuals who served during those years - the other military services also survived and thrived for many years prior to DADT. I am unsure if the repearl of DADT is really worth getting spun up about.
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Have you served in a forward deployed or remote area as a member of an SF or infantry unit?
Have you spent a lot of time showering in a communal area with members of another gender other than your spouse?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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