Radicalized American Muslims

[Dusty]

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/20...radicalization

Representative Peter King (R-NY) says he'll call for hearings into the radicalization of Muslim Americans when he takes over as chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security in the new congressional term.

In an interview on FOX's "America Live," King said "We have to break through this politically correct nonsense which keeps us from debating and discussing what I think is one of the most vitally important issues in this country. We are under siege by Muslim terrorists and yet there are Muslim leaders in this country who do not cooperate with law enforcement."

And he also notes a rise in terrorist recruitment in the United States saying, "We have the reality that Al-Qaida is trying to recruit Muslim-Americans, and yet we have people in the Muslim community who refuse to face up to this."

King cites foiled terror plots to bomb Times Square and the New York Subway, the 2009 Fort Hood shootings, and arrests of who he calls "homegrown Muslim terrorists" in Texas, Chicago, Virginia, New Jersey, San Diego and Portland, Oregon as examples of the type of radicalization on which the hearings would focus.

But some Muslim groups have said such hearings would be an anti-Muslim witch hunt and lead to an era of McCarthy-type hearings.

"Rep. King has dedicated years of his career peddling extremist rhetoric and baseless claims concerning the Muslim community and its leadership," said Faiza Ali, community affairs director of the New York chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "Instead of promoting counterproductive strategies that risk alienating partners within the community, Rep. King would better serve our nation if he actually engaged mainstream American Muslim leaders and organizations on issues related to national security."

But the congressman says he'll use the hearings to drill deeper into the divisive issue and points out that Muslims themselves are most susceptible to being victims of terrorism. "The immediate victims are Muslims themselves, whose sons and daughters could end up being killed as suicide bombers," he said.

[Gypsy]

Good, glad to hear it.

Originally Posted by Dusty

But some Muslim groups have said such hearings would be an anti-Muslim witch hunt and lead to an era of McCarthy-type hearings.

So why is it that no one remembers that McCarthy was right?

[uplink5]

Originally Posted by Gypsy

Good, glad to hear it.




So why is it that no one remembers that McCarthy was right?

Perhaps the biggest recruiting source for radical Muslims is in the prisons. This is a huge problem which is not receiving the attention it deserves and will bite us in the ass if we don't address it.

and yes, Joe McCarthy was right....jd

[akv]

Originally Posted by Gypsy

So why is it that no one remembers that McCarthy was right?

He was certainly right you can gain political prominence by playing on the fears of the American people.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by akv

He was certainly right you can gain political prominence by playing on the fears of the American people.

I was preparing an argument, but I checked your profile, and saw that you live in San Francisco.

I exercise frequently, but not in futility.

[T-Rock]

He was certainly right you can gain political prominence by playing on the fears of the American people.

Are you categorizing those who find Islamic supremacism distasteful, as well as those who have legitimate concerns over the Global threat of Jihad, as fear mongers?

[akv]

Originally Posted by Dusty

I was preparing an argument, but I checked your profile, and saw that you live in San Francisco. I exercise frequently, but not in futility.

Robert Heinlein once wrote, " I never learned from a man who agreed with me."

FWIW, as an Army brat my formative years were spent in the vicinity of Ft. Sam Houston, TX, and the metropolis know as St. Joseph, Missouri. To my surprise there are stereotypes about those regions as well.

I would very much like to hear your argument on this topic, if it is possible to overlook my proximity to Beserkeley and affinity for the World Series Champion San Francisco Giants....

[akv]

Originally Posted by T-Rock

Are you categorizing those who find Islamic supremacism distasteful, as well as those who have legitimate concerns over the Global threat of Jihad, as fear mongers?

T-Rock,

No, not in the least, I generally agree with Rep. King and share concerns about global jihad. A wise Irishman once said, " Only two types of people are really fascinating, those who know everything, and those who know nothing." Most of us, myself included fall somewhere in the middle. I know a few things, the Emancipation Proclamation was a good thing, getting my girlfriend a vacuum cleaner for Xmas is a bad idea, and if you outlaw guns only outlaws have guns.

I do not know if Sen. Joe McCarthy was right. The tactic of labeling political opponents subversives or worse was old in the days of ostracism in Athens. Case in modern point, the whimsical argument obviously anyone who criticizes Obama must be a racist. On the one hand the Soviets were certainly spying on us, and as recent events demonstrated the Russians still do. On the other hand fortunately in this country breaking the law is illegal, not differences in opinion.

IMHO conspiracy on such a grand scale requires a sustained level of competence I am not young enough to believe in. McCarthy's net impact, whatever his motivations, resulted in targeting and adversely affecting a great number of Americans who weren't subversives, and damaged the very fabric of our democracy and freedoms. I believe while we should vigorously combat both the internal and external threats of Islamists, without precision and discipline, we risk falling into witch hunts that only help our enemies, CAIR included.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by akv

............I do not know if Sen. Joe McCarthy was right.......

And that is why it would be hard to have a discussion about him with you. You believe what you were told.

His ideas were proved right. The libs of the day and the MSM painted him as a nutcase - and many to this day believe he was - but he was right about the level of infiltration by the Communists.

He might have gone about his "cure" in the wrong way but in a way it did awaken America to a threat.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Pete

And that is why it would be hard to have a discussion about him with you. You believe what you were told.

His ideas were proved right. The libs of the day and the MSM painted him as a nutcase - and many to this day believe he was - but he was right about the level of infiltration by the Communists.

He might have gone about his "cure" in the wrong way but in a way it did awaken America to a threat.

akv;

Sorry I didn't get back to you last night. I go to bed early-chickens.

One of the incidents I believe Pete refers to is the VENONA "assault", and how it relates to McCarthy.

To understand better the correct perspective on McCarthy, using Google or your favorite search engine, correlate the information you find there as pertains to operation VENONA with the admonishments of McCarthy, and it will give us a good basis for discussion; as of right now you seem to be somewhat uninformed on the subject.

[T-Rock]

I do not know if Sen. Joe McCarthy was right.

I’m of the opinion both Yuri Bezmenov and Joe McCarthy were right…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LacINAOTQ4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4k6b1_YG3Y


And I believe Representative Peter King is right too…
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p...tem-2010-12-09
http://www.meforum.org/2045/fethulla...grand-ambition

First taxpayer funded Gulen school in Hawaii
http://mokapustemschool.org/
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_...ine-base-.html



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFOnv3xiKPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQLIa-p7xNs

[Richard]

Facts concerning VENONA can be found here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200606142...publi00039.cfm

The debate of what VENONA reveals and does not reveal continues among those analyzing its contents and Historians.

As far as Senator McCarthy goes, the man was a political opportunist whose self-aggrandizing grandstanding and rabid bullying tactics possibly did far more harm to our on-going efforts to combat the actual threats presented by the former Soviet Union than have yet to be identified and studied by Historians - not to mention the dangerously unnecessary threat to American civil liberties his antics actively promoted.

Being a little bit correct neither makes him correct in much that he said or did, nor does it make what he did 'right'...and to view the behavior of Joe McCarthy to have been similar to that of a Paul Revere like figure was as dangerously misleading then as it would be today.

Richard's $.02

[T-Rock]

Should folks like Keith Ellison and Jihad Saleh Williams, the coordinator for the Congressional Muslim Staffers Association, who vetted Obama’s affirmative action program to get more Muslims into the White House, be afforded the luxury of having a hand in vetting those appointed to key security posts?

[uplink5]

Originally Posted by Richard

Facts concerning VENONA can be found here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200606142...publi00039.cfm

The debate of what VENONA reveals and does not reveal continues among those analyzing its contents and Historians.

As far as Senator McCarthy goes, the man was a political opportunist whose self-aggrandizing grandstanding and rabid bullying tactics possibly did far more harm to our on-going efforts to combat the actual threats presented by the former Soviet Union than have yet to be identified and studied by Historians - not to mention the dangerously unnecessary threat to American civil liberties his antics actively promoted.

Being a little bit correct neither makes him correct in much that he said or did, nor does it make what he did 'right'...and to view the behavior of Joe McCarthy to have been similar to that of a Paul Revere like figure was as dangerously misleading then as it would be today.

Richard's $.02

Thanks for the link....

McCarthy's tactics ultimately did more damage than success to the efforts to stop communist infiltration, that's not in doubt and not the premise of this point. As a politician his tactics could never have had the impact needed precisely because too often politicians work their public forums where self aggrandizing is a way of life. McCarthy should have been shut down thereby allowing other agencies the ability to address the issues successfully.

Otherwise, what I'm suggesting and what I believe others are suggesting is that the issue itself, “communist infiltration throughout the US infrastructure”, was legit and needed to be addressed. As a result of McCarthy's tactics, he himself became the focus of scorn more so than the issues he tried to address, all to the benefit of the communist agenda. I for one do not equate Joe McCarthy to Paul Revere. I don't equate him to be a Benidict Arnold either....jd

[Richard]

...the issue itself, “communist infiltration throughout the US infrastructure”, was legit and needed to be addressed.

Nobody was denying that issue and, as the VERONA files have shown, we knew all that and the matter was being addressed...as was their addressing our efforts to infiltrate their infrastructure.

But IMO giving McCarthy any sort of credit for his flagrantly exploiting the obvious in the way he did only gives legitimacy to his actions and fosters an acceptance of them with which I disagree.

Richard