As Mexico drug violence runs rampant, U.S. guns tied to crime south of border

[Paslode]

Justice Breyer spews his 2nd Amendment bile, then this 5 pages of bile....when is Illinois Anti-Gun Zealot Andy Traver taking over the ATF?

No other state has produced more guns seized by police in the brutal Mexican drug wars than Texas. In the Lone Star State, no other city has more guns linked to Mexican crime scenes than Houston. And in the Texas oil town, no single independent dealer stands out more for selling guns traced from south of the border than Bill Carter.

Carter, 76, has operated four Carter's Country stores in the Houston metropolitan area over the past half-century. In the past two years, more than 115 guns from his stores have been seized by the police and military in Mexico

Notice there is no mention on what Country produced the most weapons used and seized....

ATF disagreed, saying the biggest factors are the high number of dealers along the border and the convenient location.

We probably need less dealers to make the ATF's job easier

Guns from the United States "have been feeding the violence and overwhelming firepower being unleashed by drug traffickers," said Arturo Sarukhan, Mexico's ambassador to the United States. "We need to defang drug trafficking organizations of these high-caliber and semiautomatic and automatic weapons, and we need to do it now."

I wonder if Bill Carter supplies the Mexican NARCO State with hand grenades and ComBloc RPG's from his store as well......



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121202663.html

[CombatMuffin]

I just saw this on the news as well, on cnn and the source you mentioned.

I hate pointing fingers on these kinds of matters, but this one of the downsides to the Second Amendment. Trying to be as unbiased as I can here, but blaming Bill Carter blindly would be a mistake, I think.

Sure, his stores sell the most guns that have been seized, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is in on the business, though if I were a law abiding citizen, in a job that distributes such merchandise, I'd be making sure I am selling to the right people.

The guns were most likely sold legally, but when you have as much buying power as these Cartels infesting the border and Mexico, they have a lot of options on how to acquire them.

http://mexico.cnn.com/media/2010/12/13/armas.jpg

Its no surprise what's in that picture, and I've read on past news that they have better equipment (40mm grenade launchers, M82's and who knows what other trinkets).

Now, I am not familiar with Texas Gun control laws, or Federal laws for that matter, but isn't there any regulation on the high caliber guns, such as inspections, to see that those guns are still in the right hands? Or would that be considered a breach of privacy?

It just seems impractical to me, that suddenly a surge of light machine guns is purchased, and no one knows where they end up

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by CombatMuffin

...this one of the downsides to the Second Amendment.

There is NO downside to the second amendment.

Dont confuse the issue of our security as a nation and the lawlessness of others. This is a continued effort by the left to disarm America.

Crip

[Irishsquid]

Originally Posted by CombatMuffin

Now, I am not familiar with Texas Gun control laws, or Federal laws for that matter, but isn't there any regulation on the high caliber guns, such as inspections, to see that those guns are still in the right hands? Or would that be considered a breach of privacy?

It just seems impractical to me, that suddenly a surge of light machine guns is purchased, and no one knows where they end up

Doesn't work that way...at least not with legally purchased firearms. Any military caliber above .50 is considered a "Destructive Device," under the Gun Control Act of 1968, and can only be sold to A) a government agency, B) A "special Occupational Taxpayer," or C) a person with an approved Form 4, with $200.00 tax stamp affixed. Yes, these weapons are tracked and controlled. A light machine gun would fall into the "Machine guns," category of Title II weapons, subject to exactly the same restrictions.


I'll strongly argue, though, that even those restrictions should be done away with. I don't care if the Mexicans want to buy guns to kill each other with. It's when the violence crosses the border that I have a problem...and the best solution to that problem is a well-armed, well-trained populace.

[The Reaper]

This is a Coalition to Stop Gun Violence/BATFE planted story.

The fact is that the majority of all weapons WHICH ARE TRACED come back to US dealers.

The ones from Guatemala, El Sal, Cuba, North Korea, China, etc., which comprise the majority of the weapons seized, DO NOT RESPOND TO THE TRACE REQUESTS.

Since we are the only ones who keep records and trace weapons, obviously, the majority of the ones traced are ours.

The semi-auto rifles, shotguns, and pistols might be legally US purchased, but then turn out to be straw man sales. Why not track down the purchasers and put them in jail for a very long time, instead of deporting them to start all over again? If the records indicate that Jose has purchased more than a few firearms per month for an extended period, maybe you should look more closely at Jose instead of blaming his dealer, who has to follow the laws.

The frags, machine guns, grenade launchers, etc. are not sold from normal gun stores in the US. Those transactions, which are legal for private citizens in some states, still have to go through the BATFE approval process.

US firearms laws are not the cause of the Mexican drug violence.

US drug consumption MIGHT BE a causative factor.

I do not expect the WaPo to report those facts fairly and impartially.

TR

[Irishsquid]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Your post...

Well said, Sir! (Or Sgt, as the case may be...)

I know that I, personally, as a South-Central TX resident, could likely purchase a great deal more firepower, at a lower price, south of the border, than I ever could here in the States...

[Richard]

The semi-auto rifles, shotguns, and pistols might be legally US purchased, but then turn out to be straw man sales.

Might be interesting to know how many of those weapons mentioned were stolen or 'reported' ( ) as stolen.

There is a problem with weapons hereabouts winding up in the wrong hands because perfectly legal purchasers buy them and then they are stolen (or reported as such) because they were not properly secured.

So it goes...

Richard

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Irishsquid

Any military caliber above .50 is considered a "Destructive Device," under the Gun Control Act of 1968, and can only be sold to A) a government agency, B) A "special Occupational Taxpayer," or C) a person with an approved Form 4, with $200.00 tax stamp affixed.

Actually, I think you are referring to the National Firearms Act of 1934.

TR

[Irishsquid]

NFA '34 included machine guns, mufflers/silencers, short-barreled rifles, and short barreled shotfuns. The destructive device/explosive destructive device category wasn't added until the GCA '68.

Basically, GCA '68 was sort of an addition to NFA '34. Just extended the same restrictions to even more firearms and devices.

Also, apparently, any shotgun not deemed to have a "sporting purpose," can be considered a destructive device, and subject to BATFE regulation under NFA '34 and GCA '68.


Federal Firearms Regulations

Section III.A is GCA '68
Section III.B is NFA '34

[CombatMuffin]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

Dont confuse the issue of our security as a nation and the lawlessness of others. This is a continued effort by the left to disarm America.
Crip

Agreed, sir. The wording should not have been "downside", but rather, an external entity(the Cartels, etc) taking advantage of a U.S. privilege. As mentioned by Irishsquid, the problem begins when those taking advantage of that Right, begin to spread towards the U.S. and causing trouble, to which I agree.

Since we are the only ones who keep records and trace weapons, obviously, the majority of the ones traced are ours.

That makes perfect sense, I doubt all of the weaponry comes the United States, no one puts all of their eggs into one basket, especially when they have money, although I'd imagine purchasing from other latin american countries or overseas is not as practical.

US firearms laws are not the cause of the Mexican drug violence

Agreed, as well. Even if the U.S. offered little consumption, the truth is, there would still be Cartels. They seem passionate about money and power, drugs are simply a viable way of achieving it, which is why I also think legalizing drugs won't help in the long run. Gun control laws are not causing the violence: the people smuggling them for their business are.

[SparseCandy]

Originally Posted by CombatMuffin

That makes perfect sense, I doubt all of the weaponry comes the United States, no one puts all of their eggs into one basket, especially when they have money, although I'd imagine purchasing from other latin american countries or overseas is not as practical.

Can you explain how it is easier for them to get large quantities of guns from the USA vs. other latin countries or overseas? (With links you have them.) It seems counter-intuitive to me.

[The Reaper]

I believe that an enterprising Mexican could cross the border into Guatemala (and from thence into ElSal, if necessary) with a modest sum of money and return to Mexico with an arsenal of modern weaponry.

The border crossing needs only luck, a small amount of bribe money, or the approval of a cartel.

Yes, I could get someone in the US to buy handguns and semi-auto rifles, and to smuggle them back into Mexico, but the Class III stuff is much easier to obtain from a corrupt military official, along with the ammo.

Hey, maybe Mexico should secure their borders?

TR

[CombatMuffin]

Originally Posted by SparseCandy

Can you explain how it is easier for them to get large quantities of guns from the USA vs. other latin countries or overseas? (With links you have them.) It seems counter-intuitive to me.

This was the article I was reading.

It just seemed logical to me that a Northern Cartel could go through the pains of smuggling weapons from the U.S., because of the following factors: better weapon conditions, wide availability, established smuggling rings inside their territory(no need to negotiate with other Cartels) and high end weaponry (apparently the 5.7x28mm becoming popular).

Smuggling does sound easier from Central and S.America, and in large volumes, N.America would be impractical if not impossible. I even recall some recent news where Calderon was talking about weapons being purchased from Africa in a proxy manner: Supposedly the U.S. selling it to Africa, then the Cartels buying them off corrupt African states... but that sounded like Calderon blaming his troubles on someone else...

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by CombatMuffin

This was the article I was reading.

It just seemed logical to me that a Northern Cartel could go through the pains of smuggling weapons from the U.S., because of the following factors: better weapon conditions, wide availability, established smuggling rings inside their territory(no need to negotiate with other Cartels) and high end weaponry (apparently the 5.7x28mm becoming popular).

Smuggling does sound easier from Central and S.America, and in large volumes, N.America would be impractical if not impossible. I even recall some recent news where Calderon was talking about weapons being purchased from Africa in a proxy manner: Supposedly the U.S. selling it to Africa, then the Cartels buying them off corrupt African states... but that sounded like Calderon blaming his troubles on someone else...

How many Chinese AK's could you get for the price of (1) average priced AR-15 bought through a straw purchase....

[Oldrotorhead]

Originally Posted by Irishsquid

Well said, Sir! (Or Sgt, as the case may be...)

I know that I, personally, as a South-Central TX resident, could likely purchase a great deal more firepower, at a lower price, south of the border, than I ever could here in the States...

No mention of the weapons supplied by the US Government to the Mexican Military and Police ending up in Cartel hands?? I would guess that almost all of the AR style full auto weapons in hands are from Mexican Government sources. Sold or stolen, but from the Mexican government.