General says more troops need African language skills

[BMT (RIP)]

And he said that while a number of special operations forces are trained in African languages and cultures, the military is not moving fast enough to provide similar training to other troops.

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2010...049137?sac=Mil

BMT

[Dusty]

I learned how to say "You best watch your ass!" in Swahili from this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NL7nP61-hk




(On edit, I better add that I consider the concern to be legitimate; I just couldn't resist the joke.)

[Pete]

Originally Posted by BMT

And he said that while a number of special operations forces are trained in African languages and cultures, the military is not moving fast enough to provide similar training to other troops.

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2010...049137?sac=Mil

BMT

I will not say all or most - but I will say a lot of African troops I worked with spoke at least two if not three languages. The main language of the country, their tribal language - sometimes the same - and another of the larger in country dialects.

Those that spoke English really, really wanted Americans to speak English with them because they wanted to better their's.

The problem becomes when you get out in the bush. I had four languages involved in a "simple" conversation one time.

[Surgicalcric]

My experiences have been the same as Pete's.

I try to work out an agreement when in Francophone countries - we need to practice our French as well. I will teach in English but Q&A will be in French and when not in class we speak English about 1/2 the time as long as everyone speaks English, if not we will speak French. It has worked well so far, at least for the Officers.

As for tribal languages, it takes a whole different level of patience to work in countries where the majority of soldiers ONLY speak tribal languages. Direction is passed in English/French then it takes a couple more minutes to pass it down in sometimes two or three other tribal dialects/languages and if something needs clarification a few more minutes for questions to be passed back up to you. The most simple of tasks can take an hour...

As to the article, gaining SA on culture is one thing but learning tribal dialects or non-standard languages is another all together. How many of our guys are now speaking more than one language but cant maintain proficiency in them, due to deployments to multiple countries or different areas within the same countries? And if we have a difficult time staying proficient in the major languages how effective will we be at speaking Somali? Are we going to dedicate a Company/BN to those East-African countries we are interested in? That would be the only solution to becoming proficient in them, as far as I can tell.

That said, there is more than a fair share of work to be done in that area...

And it will be interesting to see as the GWOT changes focus to countries with less common languages.

Crip

[The Reaper]

Terrible idea, obviously the viewpoint of someone who has never tried to maintain proficiency in multiple languages.

Of course, we could also have the discussion of whether we actually need an African Command as well.

1. Plan deployment.
2. Arrive, get shaken down for bribes at arrival airfield. Aircrew and plane subject to separate shakedown. Lots of unknown fees and taxes here.
3. Discover HN has provided none of what they agreed to, to include troops to train. Get hit up for bribes to provide soldiers. Also, soldiers will not be proficient at any of the languages that were mentioned at the planning conferences. Pay for translators.
4. Discover that providing soldiers does not mean with billeting, meals, etc. HN needs additional funds for that. Build/repair clinic, mess hall, billets, etc.
5. Go to train and discover that soldiers lack basic gear. Like boots, uniforms, etc. HN requests US provided equipment or additional funds. Few, if any functional weapons provided. These troops have actually managed to wear out and break AKs. Without any ammunition.
6. Training begins. HN soldiers attending CQB training lack basic infantry skills. Need more time. At extra cost, of course. HN soldiers discover modern medical care. Team spends remainder of rotation providing free medical care to anyone remotely involved with training, or the military. Or living in the area.
7. HN soldiers will not train according to US schedule agreed upon previously. At least two days per week will be inviolable religious/tribal holidays. Training must end by 1300 daily, so that soldiers can return to second jobs working the General's plantation. And troops forget all previous training if permitted 24 hours off without refresher training.
8. HN soldiers begin to unexpectedly disappear from training and may/may not return or be replaced.
9. Conclude training, US pays for huge graduation feast. Thousands of unknown attendees arrive, including VIPs. With their hands out.
10. Attempt to redeploy, and discover that more bribes are needed for the plane to land, be serviced, clear customs, get MHE, load, use runway for departure, etc., etc. Watch locals strip facilities of all salvagable material team provided during deployment while aircraft is taxiing for take-off.
11. Attend planning conferences for next rotation. Get completely new soldiers/units. Repeat steps 1-10. Bring extra money, as locals discover previously unknown major revenue source- training with Americans.

TR

[Off Road]

TR - it sounds like you've done a few Flintlock rotations! Although there's definitely a lot of truth to what you said, I can tell you that things are getting better in some of the countries we're working with over here in West Africa. One good thing about AFRICOM (really JSOTF-TS under SOCAFRICA) is that it's making our engagement here more focused and persistent. That definitely helps.

I think the renewed emphasis that we (3-10) are placing on French language training and cultural immersion here in West Africa is right on - in the last six months I've sent two of my ODAs overseas for extended language training and immersion. The guys get both the classroom training and the ability to practice it out on the town or in the villages as they experience the country they're in. I think it's a great opportunity and wish I could've done it while on an ODA. We also have folks attending language training back at Carson on a continual basis.

Unfortunately, the CF don't do this and that seems to be GEN Ham's point. Most of the CF guys coming down here only have Iraq or Afghanistan as a frame of reference, they don't speak any language, and they definitely don't understand the African culture - local, regional, or otherwise. As you'd expect, this means their training doesn't have the impact it could and everyone gets frustrated because they basically execute the 11 steps as laid out by TR. (They also don't understand that it's DoS, not DoD, who has the lead down here.... but that's a whole different topic.)

[Richard]

Maybe GEN Ham will 'get it' - he seems to have the background for such an assignment. He was also an EM in the 82nd prior to his going back to school and commissioning.

http://www.hqusareur.army.mil/Biogra...rF_2008-08.pdf

Richard

[ZonieDiver]

Stay safe, Offroad!

[Peregrino]

I wish military leadership understood the practicalities of teaching/learning languages for a "global engagement" force. Language training is broken - mostly because the people making demands for it have unrealistic expectations. Deploying soldiers headed to Africa need one of three languages - English, French, and Portuguese. Maybe some MSA in East Africa. There aren't enough ODAs to have the guys wasting time learning some obscure tribal dialect spoken by bushmen who'll NEVER be anything more than cannon fodder/victims. We need to concentrate on languages spoken by people educated enough to be useful as leaders or interpreters. It's simple economics. Biggest bang for the buck. Concentrate on the Colonial languages, expand the potential recruiting pool for interpreters, and keep the ODAs flexible enough to move around and influence many tribes/ethnicities vs. being stuck with a language spoken by two tribes in five mud-hut villages (that are hated by everybody around them). Hyperbole? Yes, but not by much.

[rdret1]

If it weren't for the constant political upheavals, Africa would be an excellent vacation spot. In towns like Kinshasa, you can still see that the buildings were once really something to look at. Of course some of them are covered with vines and crumbling now but a lot of them were really something, presumably when it was the capital of Belgian Congo. The weather can be great, the hunting and fishing can be awesome and the terrain can give you anything from jungle to snow capped mountains. One of the best trips we ever had was staying in a five star hotel on the Air Force dime in Marrakesh.

[mojaveman]

Originally Posted by rdret1

If it weren't for the constant political upheavals, Africa would be an excellent vacation spot. In towns like Kinshasa, you can still see that the buildings were once really something to look at. Of course some of them are covered with vines and crumbling now but a lot of them were really something, presumably when it was the capital of Belgian Congo. The weather can be great, the hunting and fishing can be awesome and the terrain can give you anything from jungle to snow capped mountains. One of the best trips we ever had was staying in a five star hotel on the Air Force dime in Marrakesh.

True.

From what I remember of it, Mogadishu looked like it was probably a nice place at one time back when the Italians were governing it. The $5.00 lobster dinners were great.

The coast of Morrocco is beautiful also.

[Off Road]

I wish military leadership understood the practicalities of teaching/learning languages for a "global engagement" force. Language training is broken - mostly because the people making demands for it have unrealistic expectations. Deploying soldiers headed to Africa need one of three languages - English, French, and Portuguese. Maybe some MSA in East Africa. There aren't enough ODAs to have the guys wasting time learning some obscure tribal dialect spoken by bushmen who'll NEVER be anything more than cannon fodder/victims. We need to concentrate on languages spoken by people educated enough to be useful as leaders or interpreters.

Fortunately, that's exactly what we're doing - at least in 10th Group. While some of us may still be learning English, nearly everyone else is focusing on core languages like French or Arabic so our ODAs can be more versatile. We're not investing lots of time or money into the tribal languages like Bamabara or Tamasheq.