Anybody find fault with this idea?

[Dusty]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/mex...109114404.html

AUSTIN — GOP Gov. Rick Perry, who continues to insist he's not interested in the presidency, is nevertheless always ready to tell the federal government how to do a better job on such matters as border security — including indicating the U.S. should be open to sending military into Mexico to help fight the drug war.
Appearing on MSNBC on Thursday, Perry was asked, “Would you advocate military involvement in Mexico on the Mexico side of the border to help Mexico in this drug war?”

Perry answered: “I think we have to use every aspect of law enforcement that we have, including the military. I think you have the same situation as you had in Colombia. Obviously, Mexico has to approve any type of assistance that we can give them.

“But the fact of the matter is, these are people who are highly motivated with money. They are vicious. They are armed to the teeth. I want to see them defeated. And any means that we can to run these people off our border and to save Americans' lives we need to be engaged in.”

Perry has long called for more federally paid National Guard troops on the border and has cited the state's efforts to try to fill the void caused by what he describes as the failed federal effort on border security.

Thursday's answer reflected a difference in tone, though not in substance, from one he gave in an interview this summer with the San Antonio Express-News and Houston Chronicle, when he was asked whether the U.S. should consider sending the military into Mexico as it did in 1916 after border violence.

Perry said then, “I would suggest to you in that almost 100-year period of time, that idea of loading up and riding across the border to clash with the cartel members might be ill-conceived. In the late '80s and early '90s, the United States, in a coordinated effort with the Colombian government, we were able to defeat the drug cartels in that country to a great degree. Hopefully, Mexico understands that 28,000 of their citizens murdered since 2006 by the drug cartels is unacceptable. If they are responsive to our assistance, then I would think our federal government should give them that assistance.”

Perry spokeswoman Katherine Cesinger said Perry's point is that the U.S. must consider all options to secure the border.

“Certainly Texas is doing its part,” Cesinger said. “We need to consider all of our options when combating this drug war that's happening right across the river from Texas.”

Perry's reference to Colombia appears similar to comments by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in September, when she said Mexican drug cartels' activities look like an insurgency. The Los Angeles Times reported then, “She said the United States, Mexico and Central American countries need to cooperate on an ‘equivalent' of Plan Colombia — the multibillion-dollar military and aid program that helped turn back Colombia's insurgents.”

The answer is very simple.

Is Mexico a failed state? YES or NO

[Pete]

Interesting tid bits in the story.

Some good bits about Saber Rattling.

I noticed the "permission" part and the links to Colombia.

Anybody want to bet on how the MSN would spin the story if it goes National?

[Dozer523]

1,969 miles is a looooooooong FEBA

[Dusty]

I'm just sayin' we ought to absolve posse comitatus and start with, say Detroit first.

We either take control or they control us.

Have the 2 Star at Camp Pendleton as well as his Navy friends San Diego secure so Cal. The Marines at 29 Palms take from the mountains heading east until they meet AZ and NM deputies. Texas holds their own.

USCG patrols all water ways, Pacific and Gulf Coast. No movement in or out. We continue to pump Venezuela oil to fuel Mexico City. We touch not the interior.

Meanwhile, SWA insurgency intensifies, the recent deployment of tanks has proven to not be working as planned. POTUS authorizes SF Command to follow and destroy all known terrorists accross the boarder. Airstrikes hit known weapon depo in Syria, Iran and Pakistan...

Back home, US citizens living along the boarder are being murdered in their homes by Cartel gangs, Mexico invades the United Stated.

....

this is beginning to sound like a really awful movie script.

My bad.

[S. B. Newman]

That is the bottom line!

Originally Posted by wet dog

We either take control or they control us.

[1stindoor]

This is a political minefield that few want to venture across. Besides the obvious issues with posse comitatus, border control, and the fact that a lot of the citizens look the same, dress the same, speak the same, and have the same family ties on both sides of the border. I seem to recall we tried nearly 20 years ago to train the Mexican Army here at Bragg and with very few tangible results. I don't know what the "fix" is...but I don't think moving our troops across the border is the right answer.

What comparisions can be made between SWA (A-stan) and Mexico?

[CombatMuffin]

I personally don't think a military option is the sole solution to the problem. I can't remember the post exactly, but someone mentioned a comparison between Mexico and Colombia that I very much agree on: They are both in Latin America, but their inhabitants have important differences.

I think that even in a dreamlike scenario, where all cartel members were found and removed,and all illegal immigrants in the United States returned to Mexico, the problem would persist: The citizens are still corrupt, they won't fight to improve their government because they are simply not educated to. They would create new cartels to earn easy money, instead of working honestly to earn it and those that were unable or opressed in finding a decent job, would attempt to cross the border yet again.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if there was, eventually, military involvement in Mexico by either the U.S. or the U.N. Peace Corps or some sort of foreign entity. What bothers me is that whether or not Mexico is a failed state, it needs to be rebuilt from the very ground up. Socially and economically.

Originally Posted by CombatMuffin

..., the problem would persist: The citizens are still corrupt, they won't fight to improve their government because they are simply not educated to. They would create new cartels to earn eays money, instead of working hard to earn it and those that were unable or opressed in finding a decent job, would attempt to cross the border yet again.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if there was, eventually, military involvement in Mexico by either the U.S. or the U.N. Peace Corps or some sort of foreign entity.....is a failed state, it needs to be rebuilt from the very ground up. Socially and economically.

I'll accept those comparisons.

[Richard]

It's almost happening already...

Richard

U.S. Military Helping Mexican Troops Battle Drug Cartels
WaPo, 10 Nov 2010

The U.S. military has begun to work closely with Mexico's armed forces, sharing information and training soldiers in an expanding effort to help that country battle its violent drug cartels, according to U.S. and Mexican officials.

U.S. military officials have been hesitant to discuss publicly their growing ties with Mexico, for fear of triggering a backlash among a Mexican public wary of interference. But current and former officials say the U.S. military has instructed hundreds of Mexican officers in the past two years in subjects such as how to plan military operations, use intelligence to hunt traffickers and observe human rights.

The Pentagon's counternarcotics funding for Mexico has nearly tripled, from $12.2 million in 2008 to more than $34 million in 2010, according to estimates by the Government Accountability Office. While that is a small fraction of the Mexican anti-drug money provided by the State Department, the funding is significant because of the history of chilly relations between the two militaries.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton recently reflected U.S. alarm over the Mexican cartels, saying that in some cases they were "morphing into or making common cause with what we would consider an insurgency." The comment was splashed across front pages in Mexico, and President Obama hastened to assure angry Mexicans that he did not characterize the traffickers as a rebel movement.

Even so, U.S. military officials see similarities with their own counterinsurgency efforts and are passing on to the Mexicans some of the techniques they have honed, such as analyzing intelligence to track down enemy fighters.

"We have tried to share many of the lessons we've learned in chasing terrorist organizations in Iraq and Afghanistan," said Gen. Victor Renuart, who recently retired as head of the U.S. military's Northern Command, which oversees the bilateral cooperation.

Mexico historically has been among the most reluctant countries in the hemisphere to cooperate with U.S. forces, in part because of lingering bitterness over invasions. Mexico still will not permit U.S. military trainers or advisers to deploy there full time.

But U.S. military officers are regularly traveling to Mexico to provide short courses for their Mexican counterparts, who then train their own personnel. In addition, more Mexicans are being trained at various U.S. military bases, officials say. The two sides' exchange of information has improved dramatically, officials say.

"The changes in the relationship between the Mexican military and the U.S. military are, I believe, historic," Renuart said.

The Obama administration is now considering what more it can do for Mexico's security forces.

"We've been directed by the president, at a very high level, to really think hard about how we can up our game, do more to support" the partnership with the Mexican government, said one senior U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.

One plan under consideration involves using $50 million in funds from the Pentagon's 2011 budget to improve security along Mexico's southern border, an important corridor for drugs, officials said.

The Pentagon funds are in addition to the Merida Initiative, a package of law enforcement equipment and training run through the State Department. It has provided about $1.5 billion for Mexico over three years.

U.S. officials emphasize that the military assistance is part of a government-wide effort to assist Mexico on security. U.S. law enforcement agencies have also dramatically increased their cooperation with their Mexican counterparts, even embedding U.S. intelligence specialists in a Mexican command center.

"There clearly is a role for the U.S. military, but it is as a supporting player," said Roberta Jacobson, acting principal deputy assistant secretary of state for the Western Hemisphere, who coordinates Merida Initiative assistance.

The Pentagon will also foot part of the bill for the 1,200 National Guard troops that Obama recently decided to send to the border with Mexico. Those forces are under state control.

Alarmed by the soaring drug violence, some U.S. lawmakers are urging the Pentagon and intelligence community to do more to help Mexico. "These might include new ways to jointly deploy aviation, surveillance and intelligence assets," Sen. Richard G. Lugar (Ind.), the senior Republican on the Foreign Relations Committee, said in a recent speech.

But some U.S. analysts are skeptical. Mexican President Felipe Calderon has faced increasing criticism over his decision to battle the cartels with troops, who have been accused of thousands of human rights abuses.

"It's better to have a military that's better and more accountable. That said, I'm not sure the military is the right response. I think the deployment of the military has been done very badly" in Mexico, said Vanda Felbab-Brown, a Brookings Institution fellow who has studied the drug war.

Mexican soldiers were long taught that their main mission was protecting their country from the United States, which took half its territory after the mid-19th century Mexican-American War.

Cooperation began to increase in recent years with the collapse of Mexico's one-party political system. But it is the growing threat from drug traffickers that has prompted the biggest change. Drug violence has claimed at least 30,000 lives in Mexico in the past four years.

"President Calderon wants us in," said the senior U.S. official, adding: "We have to be respectful, obviously, and make clear we take responsibility for part of the problem and are supporting, not telling Mexico what to do."

Navy Adm. James A. Winnefeld Jr., the chief of the Northern Command, has called the partnership with Mexico his "number one priority." He declined an interview request.

In the past, U.S. military training teams rarely went to Mexico, analysts say. But Renuart said that small U.S. teams have been visiting the Mexican military academies, as well as regional military commands. Increased training is also occurring in the United States, officials say.

In addition to providing intelligence and human rights courses, U.S. military instructors are teaching Mexicans how to use and maintain equipment provided through the Merida Initiative, such as helicopters and night-vision goggles.

Among those traveling to Mexico to give seminars to the military are staff members from the Joint Special Operations University, a sort of "college" for U.S. Special Operations forces.

Mexico's army has stationed a permanent liaison officer at the Northern Command, which is based in Colorado. And for the first time, a Mexican officer is serving as assistant commandant at the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation at Fort Benning, Ga., formerly known as the School of the Americas.

Information-sharing between the two militaries has improved "immensely," said Mexican Ambassador Arturo Sarukhan.

The Northern Command "has become a valuable clearinghouse on the U.S. side, ensuring all the disparate U.S. agencies are working together, ensuring that information is reaching those who need to have it in real time - so we can provide the endgame," he said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110907297.html

[Dusty]

That's a good article, Richard. Might be where the Governor got the idea.

Seems incongruous that in one sentence Mexico is said to not allow trainers and then goes on to describe in the article how they're being trained by our Operators.

Cool Avatar.

[Green Light]

Gov Perry has actually asked for funding for 12,000 along the Texas border. The money would be under Title 32 which Posse C. has no jurisdiction. The troops would be on loan (state-to-state). The current 1,200 is a joke - that's fewer than one per mile in Texas alone. Plus, that's the peak number - it will start dropping shortly.

The US is going to come to a decision point here shortly. Playing footsie with the Mexican army is a losing proposition. They're in it for the money alone. Then they go back and work deals with the cartels. It's no secret.

The Guard, along with the Marines, Navy, and USCG (they're not covered under PCA either) need to be brought in. If we need to go after their strongholds, fine. Start shooting down their infiltration vehicles. Start engaging the ground infils. A couple of Spectres would do wonders and put the fear of God in them. We need to make the cartels fearful. Turn the tables on them.