France and Britain to Sign Defense Agreements

[Richard]

Is this the future cost of maintaining a credible military force with a force projection capability during a weak global economy?

And so it goes...

Richard

France and Britain to Sign Defense Agreements
Alan Cowell, NYT, 2 Nov 2010

President Nicolas Sarkozy of France traveled to Britain on Tuesday to initiate defense agreements promising cooperation including a joint rapid deployment force, shared use of aircraft carriers and joint efforts on nuclear research.

The deal between Europe’s two nuclear-armed powers comes at a time of straitened economic circumstances in both countries with Britain in particular eager to preserve its defense industry despite spending cuts ordered as part of its most severe austerity program in decades.

While the agreements are far-reaching and could have important consequences for the profile of European defense, they are not the first to be discussed in recent years. In the late 1990s, former Prime Minister Tony Blair and former President Jacques Chirac promised deeper defense cooperation but that understanding did not survive bitter differences over the Iraq war.

Britain has traditionally been unwilling to share control over its armed forces, particularly with a nation such as France which has displayed different strategic priorities like those over the Iraq invasion, the relationship with Washington and, in the 1980s, Britain’s campaign in the Falklands Islands when its Argentine foes used French-made Exocet missiles against British warships.

(cont'd) http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/03/wo...html?ref=world

[MVP]

I suspect this is just a renewal of the agreement France has with possible belligerants. You might remember it, the one where France promises to line it's streets with trees so foreign soldiers can march in the shade.

MVP

[drymartini66]

Yeah, they had a defense agreemnet once. Ask the Czechs, Poles and the soldiers at Dunquerke on how well it worked out.

[akv]

Originally Posted by drymartini66

Yeah, they had a defense agreemnet once. Ask the Czechs, Poles and the soldiers at Dunquerke on how well it worked out.

I enjoy the French jokes too, but in fairness was there an army anywhere in the world that could have stopped the initial German Blitzkrieg in 1939? It was an evolution in tactics, the shift from Second Generation to Third Generation warfare, and both the Israelis and the US have used these maneuver tactics with great success, while significantly outnumbered, in subsequent Middle Eastern conflicts. The French fought bravely on a massive scale in WW1 particularly at Verdun. And while an argument could be made for them being out maneuvered again at Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam, didn't their troops fight hard?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by akv

...... And while an argument could be made for them being out maneuvered again at Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam, didn't their troops fight hard?

Were the troops fighting at Dien Bien Phu French? The Infantry was from the Foreign Legion, Algeria, Morocco and Thailand. The bulk of the Parachute and Artillery also seem to have been "Colonial" or Legion. All the Heavy Mortar units were from the Legion.

The Armoured Cav was made up of the 3 EM / 1 RCC (French).

It does seem the service units - signal, engineers and medical were mostly French.

All the above reminded me of that depressing foreign film about the Moroccans who went to fight with France in WW II. Man, was that film a downer. Ended with the old guy sitting in a small apartment in France with no pension.

[mojaveman]

Originally Posted by Pete

Were the troops fighting at Dien Bien Phu French? The Infantry was from the Foreign Legion, Algeria, Morocco and Thailand. The bulk of the Parachute and Artillery also seem to have been "Colonial" or Legion. All the Heavy Mortar units were from the Legion.

The Armoured Cav was made up of the 3 EM / 1 RCC (French).

It does seem the service units - signal, engineers and medical were mostly French.

If I have my history correct there were also quite a few Germans fighting in the legion at Dien Bien Phu. Many were former members of the Waffen SS who joined to escape prosecution.