10-08-2010, 11:06
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#1
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Quiet Professional
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Americans' Views Of God Shape Attitudes On Key Issues
I read this article yesterday and found it to be an interesting perspective to ponder.
Richard 
Americans' Views Of God Shape Attitudes On Key Issues
USAToday, 7 Oct 2010
If you pray to God, to whom — or what — are you praying?
When you sing God Bless America, whose blessing are you seeking?
In the USA, God — or the idea of a God — permeates daily life. Our views of God have been fundamental to the nation's past, help explain many of the conflicts in our society and worldwide, and could offer a hint of what the future holds. Is God by our side, or beyond the stars? Wrathful or forgiving? Judging us every moment, someday or never?
Surveys say about nine out of 10 Americans believe in God, but the way we picture that God reveals our attitudes on economics, justice, social morality, war, natural disasters, science, politics, love and more, say Paul Froese and Christopher Bader, sociologists at Baylor University in Waco, Texas.
Their new book, America's Four Gods: What We Say About God — And What That Says About Us, examines our diverse visions of the Almighty and why they matter.
(cont'd)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...god07_CV_N.htm
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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10-08-2010, 16:30
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#2
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Quote:
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Their new book, America's Four Gods: What We Say About God — And What That Says About Us, examines our diverse visions of the Almighty and why they matter.
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Very interesting. But there's two places where I'd differ:
In the article, they're mixing God (the being) with religion (the institutions). Second, I'd say they're using "vision" where they should say "version."
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"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth."
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"If it neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket, what difference does it make to me?"
TJ
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Green Light is offline
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10-08-2010, 18:04
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#3
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Personally, I think they broke it down too far. There are times when God can be any of the four they listed. It is not that easy.
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"Solitude is strength; to depend on the presence of the crowd is weakness. The man who needs a mob to nerve him is much more alone than he imagines."
~ Paul Brunton (1898-1981)
R.D. Winters
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rdret1 is offline
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10-11-2010, 09:09
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#4
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Guerrilla Chief
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I agree with rd. God is all of those and so much more (imo). One cannot put a label on God so easily. Why do we have to have a label for Him?
My vision of God encompasses a little of each of those categories; however, it is my FAITH that gives me my relationship with Him.
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A tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny ~ Aesops Fables; The Lamb and the Wolf
Am fear nach gleidh na h-airm san t-sith, cha bhi iad aige 'n am a' chogaidh
"He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war" Old Gaelic
Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them. Thomas Paine
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Saoirse is offline
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10-11-2010, 15:10
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#5
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Area Commander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saoirse
One cannot put a label on God so easily. Why do we have to have a label for Him?
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I find this statement ironic. Referring to God as "him" also labels God. I've always been of the "God is" mindset; that is, God is neither male nor female, but neither and both at the same time.
MOO, YMMV.
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"The dignity of man is not shattered in a single blow, but slowly softened, bent, and eventually neutered. Men are seldom forced to act, but are constantly restrained from acting. Such power does not destroy outright, but prevents genuine existence. It does not tyrannize immediately, but it dampens, weakens, and ultimately suffocates, until the entire population is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid, uninspired animals, of which the government is shepherd." - Alexis de Tocqueville
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PedOncoDoc is offline
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10-11-2010, 16:15
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#6
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Tricky, ain't it? 
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"...But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive."
Shakespeare - Henry V
Lazy Bob Ranch
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Utah Bob is offline
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10-12-2010, 12:21
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#7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc
I find this statement ironic. Referring to God as "him" also labels God. I've always been of the "God is" mindset; that is, God is neither male nor female, but neither and both at the same time.
MOO, YMMV.
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Considering that is how He is referred to in the Bible, I see nothing ironic at all.
__________________
"Solitude is strength; to depend on the presence of the crowd is weakness. The man who needs a mob to nerve him is much more alone than he imagines."
~ Paul Brunton (1898-1981)
R.D. Winters
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rdret1 is offline
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10-12-2010, 12:41
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#8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdret1
Considering that is how He is referred to in the Bible, I see nothing ironic at all.
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The Bible is not the only holy writing that references God or a supreme being/entity/etc. Calling God "Him" is labeling God as "male" which is entirely consistent with the Christian perspective (or allows for consistency if choosing to use the Christian labeling paradigm). I was stating that doing so right after stating one doesn't want to label God is ironic. I was not challening the correctness of the statement; I was pointing out the contradiction in the 2 statements. MOO, YMMV.
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"The dignity of man is not shattered in a single blow, but slowly softened, bent, and eventually neutered. Men are seldom forced to act, but are constantly restrained from acting. Such power does not destroy outright, but prevents genuine existence. It does not tyrannize immediately, but it dampens, weakens, and ultimately suffocates, until the entire population is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid, uninspired animals, of which the government is shepherd." - Alexis de Tocqueville
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PedOncoDoc is offline
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10-12-2010, 20:40
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#9
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Guerrilla Chief
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc
The Bible is not the only holy writing that references God or a supreme being/entity/etc. Calling God "Him" is labeling God as "male" which is entirely consistent with the Christian perspective (or allows for consistency if choosing to use the Christian labeling paradigm). I was stating that doing so right after stating one doesn't want to label God is ironic. I was not challening the correctness of the statement; I was pointing out the contradiction in the 2 statements. MOO, YMMV. |
Ped, I am not sure if you are trying to be "thought provoking" or just provoking. But I am not contradicting myself when I call God a Him. Jesus, was born a male, the Bible refers to God as Him and if you have not guessed, Sir, I am a Christian. And while you may see the Bible as NOT the only holy writing, it is for me. And I fail to see the irony in my statement.
The labeling I am referring to is the labelling done in the article that Richard shared with us. If you look at the society we live in, we label everything and everyone. If a child is a bit hyper and the parents don't want to control him/her, the child is labelled as ADD or ADHD or whatever the shrink deems necessary. The writings in the article, as I read it, sounds like it was written by a person(s) who does not understand God and is trying to fit HIM in a nice, neat lil box of labels instead of reading the scriptures. And that sort of behavior is one that is usually exemplyfied by liberals or progressives.
__________________
A tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny ~ Aesops Fables; The Lamb and the Wolf
Am fear nach gleidh na h-airm san t-sith, cha bhi iad aige 'n am a' chogaidh
"He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war" Old Gaelic
Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them. Thomas Paine
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Saoirse is offline
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10-20-2010, 14:19
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#11
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Area Commander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saoirse
Ped, I am not sure if you are trying to be "thought provoking" or just provoking. But I am not contradicting myself when I call God a Him. Jesus, was born a male, the Bible refers to God as Him and if you have not guessed, Sir, I am a Christian. And while you may see the Bible as NOT the only holy writing, it is for me. And I fail to see the irony in my statement.
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Sorry I missed this earlier. I wasn't intending to provoke, and I apologize if my posts came off that way. I will have to respectfully disagree with your view. Dogma - whether it be in religion, politics, or anything else under the sun, leads to intolerance which, in turn, can lead to hate.
Let me take your quote and change a few words - this will probably be provocative and I mean no disrespect - I'm only trying to explain my response, and I'm prepared to take my licks on this one.
If you can't guess, the words I changed are in red.
Quote:
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But I am not contradicting myself when I call Allah a Him. Mohammed, was born a male, the Koran refers to Allah as Him and if you have not guessed, Sir, I am a Muslim. And while you may see the Koran as NOT the only holy writing, it is for me. And I fail to see the irony in my statement.
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What feelings and thoughts do you have when reading the above statement?
Again - I mean no disrespect and I do not mean to offend you.
Quote:
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The labeling I am referring to is the labelling done in the article that Richard shared with us. If you look at the society we live in, we label everything and everyone. If a child is a bit hyper and the parents don't want to control him/her, the child is labelled as ADD or ADHD or whatever the shrink deems necessary.
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I agree with you whole-heartedly - we label people/things/ideas way too much.
Quote:
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The writings in the article, as I read it, sounds like it was written by a person(s) who does not understand God and is trying to fit HIM in a nice, neat lil box of labels instead of reading the scriptures. And that sort of behavior is one that is usually exemplyfied by liberals or progressives.
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I agree that trying to fit God in a neat little box of labels is inappropriate, but I will have to respectfully disagree with the statement about learning through scriptures. Texts are written by man and are therefore inherently flawed IMHO. A lot CAN be learned from the scriptures, but not everything. The divine gets filtered (and altered) by man, his ego and the limitations of our language(s).
A lot can be learned without reading scripture as well. I experience and learn from God every day - I never expect to understand God - the old proverb about trying to pour the ocean into a dixie cup comes to mind immediately - I cannot comprehend the infinite - but that does not mean that I do not learn all I can.
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"The dignity of man is not shattered in a single blow, but slowly softened, bent, and eventually neutered. Men are seldom forced to act, but are constantly restrained from acting. Such power does not destroy outright, but prevents genuine existence. It does not tyrannize immediately, but it dampens, weakens, and ultimately suffocates, until the entire population is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid, uninspired animals, of which the government is shepherd." - Alexis de Tocqueville
Last edited by PedOncoDoc; 10-20-2010 at 14:33.
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PedOncoDoc is offline
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10-20-2010, 15:04
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#12
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Quiet Professional (RIP)
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PedOncoDoc,
But I am not contradicting myself when I call Allah a Him. Mohammed, was born a male, the Koran refers to Allah as Him and if you have not guessed, Sir, I am a Muslim. And while you may see the Koran as NOT the only holy writing, it is for me. And I fail to see the irony in my statement.
Mohammed never claimed to be GOD....... Neither did Buddha,Confucius,etc.......I'm with Saoirse on this one totally.......... 
Big Teddy
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I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver
SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney
SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
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greenberetTFS is offline
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10-20-2010, 16:21
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#13
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Area Commander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenberetTFS
PedOncoDoc,
But I am not contradicting myself when I call Allah a Him. Mohammed, was born a male, the Koran refers to Allah as Him and if you have not guessed, Sir, I am a Muslim. And while you may see the Koran as NOT the only holy writing, it is for me. And I fail to see the irony in my statement.
Mohammed never claimed to be GOD....... Neither did Buddha,Confucius,etc.......I'm with Saoirse on this one totally..........
Big Teddy |
No worries Big Teddy-
I may be a bit rusty on my scripture, but I don't recall Jesus calling himself God either. That claim can be attributed to his apostles and those who came after him. I know he did refer to himself as the son of God.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
I'm not with or against Saoirse - I am, however, in favor of critically examining one's faith and how one looks at how others interact with/view the divine.
__________________
"The dignity of man is not shattered in a single blow, but slowly softened, bent, and eventually neutered. Men are seldom forced to act, but are constantly restrained from acting. Such power does not destroy outright, but prevents genuine existence. It does not tyrannize immediately, but it dampens, weakens, and ultimately suffocates, until the entire population is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid, uninspired animals, of which the government is shepherd." - Alexis de Tocqueville
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PedOncoDoc is offline
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10-20-2010, 17:23
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#14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc
I may be a bit rusty on my scripture, but I don't recall Jesus calling himself God either. That claim can be attributed to his apostles and those who came after him. I know he did refer to himself as the son of God.
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John chapter 8 v 48-59
Particularly v 58: "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (NIV)
The people to whom he said this subsequently attempted to stone him for his claim of divinity.
They knew what he was saying.
It is elsewhere, too.
FWIW, I very much agree with your statement here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc
- I cannot comprehend the infinite - but that does not mean that I do not learn all I can.
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The way my father related the idea:
You can teach a dog to bark once when you say "one", to bark twice when you say "two", etc.
You can't teach a dog calculus.
Much the same with comprehending His ways.
I'll learn what I can.
Trust that it will be sufficient to understand evidence which, in turn, affirms faith.
(how's that for a tautology... )
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Waiting for the perfect moment is a fruitless endeavor.
Make a decision, and then make it the right one through your actions.
"Whoever watches the wind will not plant; whoever looks at the clouds will not reap." -Ecclesiastes 11:4 (NIV)
Last edited by GratefulCitizen; 10-20-2010 at 17:24.
Reason: .
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GratefulCitizen is offline
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10-20-2010, 17:33
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#15
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Area Commander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen
John chapter 8 v 48-59
Particularly v 58: "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (NIV)
The people to whom he said this subsequently attempted to stone him for his claim of divinity.
They knew what he was saying.
It is elsewhere, too.
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I always felt Jesus was talking in the role of the Christos when making such statements, YMMV. I also recall Jesus speaking of the divinity of man in general, but again, I may be mistaken. I would love to see the original writings translated by an impartial source, too.
Quote:
The way my father related the idea:
You can teach a dog to bark once when you say "one", to bark twice when you say "two", etc.
You can't teach a dog calculus.
Much the same with comprehending His ways.
I'll learn what I can.
Trust that it will be sufficient to understand evidence which, in turn, affirms faith.
(how's that for a tautology...)
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Well said. 
__________________
"The dignity of man is not shattered in a single blow, but slowly softened, bent, and eventually neutered. Men are seldom forced to act, but are constantly restrained from acting. Such power does not destroy outright, but prevents genuine existence. It does not tyrannize immediately, but it dampens, weakens, and ultimately suffocates, until the entire population is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid, uninspired animals, of which the government is shepherd." - Alexis de Tocqueville
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