The Fallacy of the “Moderate Muslim”

[Pete]

The Fallacy of the “Moderate Muslim”

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org...pub_detail.asp

This guy says a lot about things that have been said here.

"..............................If our country has even the remotest chance of securing our nation we must accept America is indeed at war with Islam. There is no nice way to ignore the violence within neither Islam nor its teachings. There are millions of ‘good people who call themselves Muslim’, but in actuality they do not follow Sharia law and are Apostates of Islam. Sharia adherent Muslims are not ‘good Muslims’. Islam forbids this trait which naïve Americans desire. There is nothing I have said in this article that the leaders of Islam have not repeated over and over to their worshippers and to non-Muslims. Now is the time to take them for their word, or else you are risking the lives of your children by ignoring their warnings........"

[glebo]

I know pete, to bad most of the sheeple don't see the light....they "just don't get it"..

[Gypsy]

Originally Posted by Pete

There is nothing I have said in this article that the leaders of Islam have not repeated over and over to their worshippers and to non-Muslims.

If only people would listen.

[drymartini66]

Originally Posted by Pete

The Fallacy of the “Moderate Muslim”

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org...pub_detail.asp

This guy says a lot about things that have been said here.

"..............................If our country has even the remotest chance of securing our nation we must accept America is indeed at war with Islam. There is no nice way to ignore the violence within neither Islam nor its teachings. There are millions of ‘good people who call themselves Muslim’, but in actuality they do not follow Sharia law and are Apostates of Islam. Sharia adherent Muslims are not ‘good Muslims’. Islam forbids this trait which naïve Americans desire. There is nothing I have said in this article that the leaders of Islam have not repeated over and over to their worshippers and to non-Muslims. Now is the time to take them for their word, or else you are risking the lives of your children by ignoring their warnings........"

Isn't the term "Moderate Muslim" an oxymoron in itself?

[Oldrotorhead]

I think a lot of people see that we are at war with Islam, but it isn't PC to admit this fact. Being PC and worried about hurting peoples feeling could be the death of the Nation. I am old enough not to care who I offend so I am NOT PC and I really try and work with people thoughts and screw their feeling. I don't need a lot of new shallow friend that worry about offening some Muslim or Fundimentalist Christian for that matter. I keep moving further into fly over country and the only thing I miss is the beach. Well OK maybe some of the food in New Youk City too.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Oldrotorhead

I think a lot of people see that we are at war with Islam, but it isn't PC to admit this fact.

I believe that is true. I also find that that some friends and acquaintances (who tend to be liberal) have friends or know people who are 'Good Muslims'. Akmad is a good guy he would never do anything like that! Thus they ignore or do not understand what is going on.


The simple question of what laws will you abide by the Sharia or US Law has thus far answered the question for me.........it's is always met with silence, signs of irritation and finally the cop-out of you don't understand and 'We are a Religion of Peace.


It mixes like Oil and Water.

[trvlr]

"Apostate of Islam" is a relative term. A good example of this is Christianity and how it changed from old to new testament, and then again during the "evening light" period. Are modern Christians also apostates? Saying you are warring against an entire religion (one that like it or not, we need support from) does not make strategic sense. Wahabi style Sharia law is not the same as the Sharia upheld in Indonesia. Why incense tens of millions when we don't have to?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by trvlr

........... Why incense tens of millions when we don't have to?

Have you read the Koran and do you understand Abrogation?

http://library.flawlesslogic.com/verses.htm

"Abrogated Verses in the Koran"

".. "Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clear from error" (Sura 2.256).

Apologists for Islam often quote this verse, and most Westerners, unfamiliar with the Koran and imagining that it must obey the same theological logic as the Christian Bible, assume that Islamic scripture mandates religious toleration toward non-Muslims. That assumption is inaccurate............."

and

"........But when Islam became powerful, Allah's eternal message changed. Islam could now "call people by the sword" -- that is, compel conversion -- and accordingly "verses of the sword" were conveniently revealed to the Prophet, verses that sanction and indeed command conversion of the Infidel by armed violence, which historically would be Islam's preferred method. Sura 2.256 was thus abrogated by a later verse, composed after Mohammed had begun to prepare his new Muslim empire for Jihad against the non-Muslim world: "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush" (Sura 9.5). This "verse of the sword" not only abrogates 2.256, but also abrogates well over a hundred earlier verses that formerly taught peace and tolerance toward non-believers..........."

So just what is a good Muslim? One who believes in the Koran or one who does not?

[trvlr]

Originally Posted by Pete

Have you read the Koran and do you understand Abrogation? So just what is a good Muslim? One who believes in the Koran or one who does not?

I have read parts of the Koran but not its entirety. I am familiar with abrogation. "Good Muslim" is another relative term. It may sound like I'm splitting hairs but I am not.

Islam has a history of bloody borders because it was created that way. I am not refuting the fact that Mohammad's desire for land and power deeply affected his religion.

However, that has no bearing on the tens of millions of people defining themselves by their Islamic faith. If even a thousandth of one percent of them turned to overt terrorism or began supporting it just because America felt like painting with broad strokes I do not believe the American lives lost would be worth while.

I lost a couple friends after the surge in OIF violence following former President Bush's "bring it on" speech. That really changed my perspective on how important syntax and rhetoric can be.

[T-Rock]

I also find that some friends and acquaintances (who tend to be liberal) have friends or know people who are 'Good Muslims'. Akmad is a good guy he would never do anything like that! Thus they ignore or do not understand what is going on.

I have some too….and they’re unable to grasp the concept that just because their friends are nice by our standards, their friends behavior doesn’t invalidate Islamic teachings that advocate intolerance and violence towards we, the Kafiroon.

Be sure and tell em’ they’re lucky to have friends who don’t follow Islamic doctrine

[T-Rock]

However, that has no bearing on the tens of millions of people defining themselves by their Islamic faith.

By Qur’anic doctrine codified by Sharia, what must they do to be a good Muslim?

[Richard]

http://www.rferl.org/soundslide/831.html

Complicated it is.

Richard

[trvlr]

Originally Posted by T-Rock

By Qur’anic doctrine codified by Sharia, what must they do to be a good Muslim?

I'm saying that it doesn't matter. I know very few Christians that would literally turn the other cheek after someone rocked them with brass knuckles. Does that mean they aren't good Christians? "Good Christian" is a relative term.

Tell me if this makes sense:

American President states, "Let's call a spade a spade. America is at war with Islam."

Indonesia, UAE, and Jordan cut political ties.

American President then states, "It shouldn't matter to those countries. They aren't practicing hardline Qur'anic doctrine so they aren't real Muslims anyway."

We lose allies. What do we gain? I guess that's a better way of stating my position. What do we gain by saying that we are at war with Islam. Allies are a tangible strategic benefit. What strategic benefit do we gain by seating we are at war with Islam. How can every religion but Islam have moderates?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by trvlr

..... What strategic benefit do we gain by seating we are at war with Islam. How can every religion but Islam have moderates?

What do we gain by saying we at at peace with Islam?

Are we at peace with Islam? Is Islam at peace with us? Is Islam at peace with other religions?

What does the Koran say about peace with non-Muslims?

Me? I just believe what they say. I believe them when they say Islam is the only true religion and they say they wish to transform the World to Islam.

In order to do that the western way must be destroyed.

So just who is at war with who?

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by trvlr

How can every religion but Islam have moderates?

I always assumed that Islam had moderates just like the various Christian religions do, but I have yet to see solid evidence of moderate Muslims existence or an outcry against Jihad you might expect from the supposed overwhelmingly moderate Islam.

For example:

If the Christian Jihadi Fred Phelps decided he wanted to move his radical congregation 50 miles SE to my city there would be a large public outcry very similar to the NY Mosque to to prevent Mr. Phelps and his ilk from being here. Unlike the Islamic Jihadi's, the Westboro Baptist Jihadi's are unlikely to issue veiled threats of death and violence or walk into your shopping mall wearing the latest designer explosive vest. And unlike the NY Mosque the Westboro Baptist would quickly find a change of venue.

Another example would be that anyone can artistically deface, urinate, defecate, burn or wipe ones ass on/with the Holy Bible or a picture of the Pope or Jesus Christ without fearing the possibility of having a bounty put on their head. Whereas merely drawing glasses on Muhammad is grounds for a fatwa.



Thus it appears to me that the Muslim Extremists are running Islam, and what Moderates there are are a minority. Whereas the moderate and tolerant majority in the US keeps the Christian Jihadi's like Phelps in check.