The side effects of mass distribution...

[Paslode]

I remember as a kid on the way back from my Aunts, somewhere between Anderson and Neosho we would stop and pick up a gross or two of farm fresh eggs to bring back to the city.

And I don't remember anyone getting sick from the eggs....or the farm fresh produce, beef, pork, chicken or even the fresh from the cow utter whole/un-skimmed/unpasteurized milk we brought back.

The good old days! When the live stock that ended up on the table wallowed in mud and their own excrement, and not in a federally controlled clean house.

You'd think increased oversight with far fewer suppliers and a cleaner growing environment would limit the spread of disease


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...ral-oversight/

FoxNews.com

- August 23, 2010
Egg Recall Exposes Gaps in Federal Oversight

Two federal agencies are downplaying their oversight roles in the wake of a massive egg recall that so far has affected 17 states and shined a light on what lawmakers and watchdogs for years have claimed is a cracked system for regulating a primary source of salmonella outbreaks.
fox news

Two federal agencies are downplaying their oversight roles in the wake of a massive egg recall that so far has affected 17 states and shined a light on what lawmakers and watchdogs for years have claimed is a broken system for regulating a primary source of salmonella outbreaks.

About 1,300 cases of salmonella poisoning have been linked to the latest outbreak, and approximately 500 million eggs have been recalled from two Iowa egg distributors.

One supplier linked to the cases has a history of violations dating back to 1994 -- but the Food and Drug Administration says the violations that were recorded were outside its purview. On top of that, the U.S. Department of Agriculture says it never had an inspector dedicated to food safety at the farms.

According to an FDA fact sheet, the FDA has traditionally been responsible for monitoring egg safety after the eggs are processed and the USDA is responsible for egg safety at the processing facilities.

A USDA official, though, told FoxNews.com that USDA agencies have had no involvement in food safety regulations over shell eggs. The official said USDA's chief task was to send an official to the farms, including one involved in the latest outbreak, to grade the eggs -- in other words, inspect them for thickness and cracks and other quality assurance factors in order to give them a USDA seal of approval. That stamp, though, does not certify that an egg is salmonella-free.

FDA Commissioner Margaret Hamburg said Monday that new rules that went into effect last month giving the FDA authority to test eggs for salmonella "very likely" would have enabled the FDA to flag the problem before the outbreak. She said the FDA will conduct "hundreds" of inspections in the months ahead under its new authority.

That proposal has languished for years -- President Clinton laid the groundwork for it during a 1999 address in which he called for "extensive tests" at egg farms and set a goal of eliminating egg-based salmonella cases by 2010.

That didn't happen.

The FDA probably had some authority to inspect egg farms but did not exercise it, said Caroline Smith DeWaal, food safety director at the Center for Science in the Public Interest. She said the confusion is no surprise since federal law does not clearly put one agency in charge of egg safety.

"Food safety just totally fell through the cracks here," she said. "If you have a company violating a number of different types of laws and (it) is found to be a repeat violator ... it's highly likely that they're also cutting corners when it comes to food safety. But no one was checking."

Instead, the FDA has mostly been reacting after outbreaks occur, she said, "like the fire department."

Implementation of the new salmonella inspections program took so long to go into effect that it could have done very little to prevent the latest outbreak. But now that it's in effect, DeWaal said, it will provide an "early warning" whenever there's evidence of salmonella. A food safety bill pending in the Senate could do the same, she noted.

That bill, the FDA Food Safety Modernization Act, passed the House and the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee last year, but it has not been taken up by the full Senate. The bill would require the FDA to inspect high-risk facilities and give the health and human services secretary the authority to suspend operations at facilities where a serious health risk is suspected. It would also allow FDA to mandate what are now voluntary recalls.

Hamburg told CBS and NBC on Monday that she was "very anxious" to see that legislation pass, saying it would "make sure the companies have the appropriate preventive measures in place." She also said the new egg rules would play a "very, very important" role in the future.

"Unfortunately, they went into effect a little bit after this outbreak began," she said.

The two farms linked to the poisonings, Wright County Egg and Hillandale Farms, both used the company Quality Eggs for their young chickens and feed, an egg industry spokeswoman said.

The owner of that company and Wright County Egg, Austin "Jack" DeCoster, has been cited multiple times by safety officials, mostly at the local level.

Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, and Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, sent a letter to DeCoster on Monday demanding answers on how and when Wright County Eggs realized it had a salmonella contamination, and when it notified federal and state health officials.

The two also called for all records on inspections, citations for violations, allegations of other contaminations for all 24 companies under the DeCoster umbrella as well as documents on its safety practices and protocols, monitoring and analysis.

DeCoster Farms was cited in 1994 by the state of Iowa for environmental violations; it paid $2 million in fines in 1997 for other health and safety violations; it settled an employment discrimination suit in 2002; and its successor company in Maine agreed in 2010 to pay $125,000 over animal cruelty violations. DeCoster Farms were also the subject of several immigration raids.

Hamburg said Monday that those violations were not food safety-related, suggesting FDA did not have jurisdiction.

Wright County Egg spokeswoman Hinda Mitchell said the company had reacted quickly in the past to correct its operations when safety issues were raised. She said Monday that company officials cannot respond to Hamburg's remarks because they have not received any written reports from the agency, but that the company is addressing or in the process of addressing any concerns raised verbally during FDA's ongoing inspection of the farms.

"Wright County Egg strives to operate our farms in the most responsible manner, and our management team has worked closely with FDA through their review of our farms," she said.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[Richard]

And I don't remember anyone getting sick from the eggs....or the farm fresh produce, beef, pork, chicken or even the fresh from the cow utter whole/un-skimmed/unpasteurized milk we brought back.

Just because you don't remember it doesn't mean it wasn't happening - it was, it still is (although with far less frequency), and - most likely - it always will be happening.

The Pure Food and Drug Act (1906) came about for a number of reasons long before we were brought into this world. Study some History and read some of the so-called muckraker literature of the times.

Good old days my anal sphincter.

And so it goes...

Richard

[JJ_BPK]

As a child I can remember drinking fresh milk out of the milking pail after I used the same pail on 5 different Jerseys. Collecting berries from the edge of the cow pastures. Climbing into the hay loft to fetch eggs from the hens that escaped from the hen house. And only being allowed to take a bath once a week...

A terribly wasted youth...

So,, I also have wondered:

Is it the modern computer enhanced medical science's abilities to spot the sickness??

Or

Is it the modern computer enhanced abilities of MSM to be able to smell a story??

FoxNews.com - August 23, 2010 Egg Recall Exposes Gaps in Federal Oversight

.................

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Adjectives, I suspect!!!!

[Pete]

Everybody got their system so clean they can't run with a little dirt / germs in them - just like fancy car engines.

I noticed a long time back some of the picky eater crowd would be the first ones hit with the trots. Oh, I got hit a few times but for the most part I liked any of the local foods - the hotter the better.

The wife does accuse me of being part raccoon as I hand wash anything like apples, oranges, limes, lemons etc I get from Food Lion.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Richard

Just because you don't remember it doesn't mean it wasn't happening - it was, it still is (although with far less frequency), and - most likely - it always will be happening.

The Pure Food and Drug Act (1906) came about for a number of reasons long before we were brought into this world. Study some History and read some of the so-called muckraker literature of the times.

Good old days my anal sphincter.

And so it goes...

Richard

I had a pet turtle, played with snakes and frequently drank creek water without the use of a MSR MIOX as well.

The Pure Food and Drug Act (1906) , thanks for the reference I'll look into it.

Though I do believe there is a good chance that the product adulteration in use today (steroids, antibiotics, genetic engineering and over breeding) could or may have led to hardier strains of bacteria. Which over time would likely lead to more instances of an outbreak and more severity.

For instance, Hogs in a clean house are there because they are more susceptible to disease than your farm filthy hog running around a muddy, crappy hog pen.

Back in the Good Ole Days Farmers Joes tainted eggs might have infected maybe 100 miles out, in today's distribution chain you can/could infect many, many thousands, in many states, many thousands of miles away from the start point.

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by Pete

The wife does accuse me of being part raccoon as I hand wash anything like apples, oranges, limes, lemons etc I get from Food Lion.

Well, it wasn't that long ago that Food Lion got caught repackaging out of date fish, wasn't it?

[Dirt Gallo]

I've often wondered about that theory of Pete's. I have relatives and friends that have lived an almost germaphobe existence, while, I've lived the life of a carefree bumpkin living on the wrong side of the tracks. Road apple fights. Drinking unpasteurized milk from goats and cows. Eating unwashed fruit and veggies. Eating 2 day old pizza. Milk past it's expiration date ... etc, etc. I rarely ever get sick. WHEN I do, it seems to be over in hours rather than days. On the other hand, these other aquintances of mine have eaten only the proper foods handled in the recommended ways, cleaning up after themselves with Clorox wipes ... yada yada yada. Guess who is regularly sick? Guess who REQUIRES medical intervention more often because their illnesses get so bad?
Not I.
Perhaps, a little exposure to a variety of bacteria on a frequent basis, with out going overboard, enables the antibodies to stay elevated enough to keep the immune system active and working properly?
Just some uneducated, off the hip theory...

But, this idea disregards modern engineering and steroids that may very well be creating even more resilient bacterias. Even so, I still don't get sick and, oftentimes, eat like the kid I once was.

Does this jive with any of your childhood experiences or am I a rarity on this?

[GratefulCitizen]

Originally Posted by Pete

Everybody got their system so clean they can't run with a little dirt / germs in them - just like fancy car engines.

I noticed a long time back some of the picky eater crowd would be the first ones hit with the trots. Oh, I got hit a few times but for the most part I liked any of the local foods - the hotter the better.

The wife does accuse me of being part raccoon as I hand wash anything like apples, oranges, limes, lemons etc I get from Food Lion.

Big believer in this.

Don't believe in sterilizing my world (as if it would even be possible with all my kids )
Just need to dilute the germs down to a level where the immune system can handle it.

Flowing water and life.

[Saoirse]

When I moved to NYC in 1997, I worked for a PR firm on Long Island. Our specialty was crisis and risk management. One example of our cases was when Outback had a massive ecoli outbreak from their steaks. My job was to video monitor every news item, documentary, interview, etc that related to bacteria, contamination, sterilization, antibiotics, etc. I learned a lot about germs from 2 yrs in that job. From countless interviews, studies and documentaries...those that over-sterilize and use antibiotics without need are those that are prone to longer and more straining infections and contaminations. They have proven that the use of antibiotics, anti-bacterial soaps, chronic handwashing, etc will 1. destory those bacteria we do need and 2. weakens our immune system to the point of not being strong of enough to fight off ever changing strains of bacteria.
Doctors who over-prescribe antibiotics for colds, for example, are doing more harm than good to their patients. Virus strains are like cockroaches, they get stronger and meaner and we have to strive to create even stronger drugs... the cycle is menacing.
I, like many of you, grew up in the days of my mother not wiping everything down with clorox, drinking unpasturized milk, fresh eggs from the farm, wild berries on the farm, etc. And even as an adult, I chastised my doctor for giving me antibiotics for a damned cold when all I wanted was a note to give my boss to prove I was, indeed, sick. I still don't use antibacterial soap or gels, won't go to the doctor unless ABSOLUTELY necessary and I don't freak-out over a little mold on my cheese.

[Richard]

Is this issue more a side effect of mass distribution or mass production?

Richard

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Dirt Gallo

I've often wondered about that theory of Pete's. I have relatives and friends that have lived an almost germaphobe existence, while, I've lived the life of a carefree bumpkin living on the wrong side of the tracks. Road apple fights. Drinking unpasteurized milk from goats and cows. Eating unwashed fruit and veggies. Eating 2 day old pizza. Milk past it's expiration date ... etc, etc. I rarely ever get sick. WHEN I do, it seems to be over in hours rather than days. On the other hand, these other aquintances of mine have eaten only the proper foods handled in the recommended ways, cleaning up after themselves with Clorox wipes ... yada yada yada. Guess who is regularly sick? Guess who REQUIRES medical intervention more often because their illnesses get so bad?
Not I.
Perhaps, a little exposure to a variety of bacteria on a frequent basis, with out going overboard, enables the antibodies to stay elevated enough to keep the immune system active and working properly?
Just some uneducated, off the hip theory...

But, this idea disregards modern engineering and steroids that may very well be creating even more resilient bacterias. Even so, I still don't get sick and, oftentimes, eat like the kid I once was.

Does this jive with any of your childhood experiences or am I a rarity on this?

Clean, Green it is all the same.

My Mom was and is a firm believer in a little dirt will do you good.

Clorox wipes, anti-bacterial soaps, etc is a cash cow, and these days has become a phobia IMO. My wife (she works in a hospital) for example washes her hands at least every 15 minutes....if we had a decontamination room and a autoclave in the house she would put it too good use. Four washing machines later........

I asked friends about their Nurse wives clean habits......same crap! Yeah I get bitched at for not washing my hand enough, wearing my shoes in the house, etc.

You go to Scout camp outs and half the dads are pulling out Anti-bacterial soap every 5 minutes for Jr. to sanitize himself.

Not that you shouldn't wash your hands.....but this is insanity!

On a side note, I never had school canceled because of strep, and nor did my Mom ever receive a bulletin alerting of a strep outbreak. Now strep and pinkeye outbreaks are at least annual occurrence in the area schools.

Same goes for food. The masses have bought into the 'Clean, Safe and Convenient' image of the big corporations vs. Farmer Joe and the dirty hog pen. But in reality if they saw what was in that Chicken Nugget they were feeding the kids they might rather feed them ALPO or Science Diet.

I took some deer meat to a scout camp out......Did it come from the store? No, I shot it, cleaned it and processed it. Where you afraid of getting a disease? No. How do you know it is healthy to eat? I ate some and I am here.


We're too clean and sterile these days.

Originally Posted by Richard

Is this issue more a side effect of mass distribution or mass production?

Richard

Both IMO. In mass production we use antibiotics, hormones and genetic alteration to increase the product and the profits. In the case of antibiotics, too much antibiotic can render your body more susceptible to bacteria, and can cause those bacteria to mutate into a stronger strain. Why do girls seems to be blossoming early in age? Possibly in part to hormones in food.

The large scale distribution allows the distribution to a larger number of hosts.

[Richard]

We're too clean and sterile these days.

Eat more boogers...errr...ummmm...chikun.

Richard

[CombatMuffin]

Diseases have always existed. Some cultures even abstained in the past from eating certain foods because they were considered inherently unclean, if I recall correctly pork being one of them.

Then again, people do tend to sterilize everything nowadays. I wonder if our bodies will eventually become weaker as a result of overdependance on technology....

As for my youth, my school since kindergarden used to be in the middle of a jungle pretty much(before the city grew), so snakes, spiders and some nasty bees(and tabanos) would sometimes sneak into the playgrounds and become a commonsight. Fun times. Since I live in a city near the sea, much of the food was fresh. Seafood(shrimp in particular) for instance, has always been unpredictable and is not necessarily mass distributed.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Paslode

My wife (she works in a hospital) for example washes her hands at least every 15 minutes...

Hell yeah--those hospitals are just FULL of sick people! In all seriousness, with all the MRSA and VRE colonies you find in a hospital, if I worked in one I'd vacuum-wrap myself before coming on shift. One little scratch, brush up against a contaminated surface and wham-o!, instant, drug-resistant infection.