Border States: Dealing with the Invasion

[LarryW]

IMO, and I recognize I am not the sharpest tack on the board, something needs to happen ASAP. This is my suggestion:

1. The situation (invasion) has to gain the attention of the MSM. Right now we read about this in local Border State newspapers and occasional bits on Fox and CNN, but the subject is being used by both liberal and conservative talking heads to snipe at one another, not to inform the public. The problem is going to need the level of attention that is being paid (rightly so) to the oil spill.

2. The situation (invasion) has to become a subject of daily embarrassment for the Chicago gang in the White House and the Limp Weeds in Congress. Until you embarrass a politician into action they are nothing but hood ornaments.

To get there:

1. The Border States need to pass a State Law making it illegal for persons to enter their State with the intention of violating a Federal Law. Bet there's words to that effect on the books already. Will this cause the law breakers to saturate the State and Federal Courts with lawsuits and paperwork? Sure. Let them go ahead. Just take your sweet time processing the paperwork. If they gain an injunction prohibiting the States from doing this then let the Federals come in and enforce the terms of the Court Order.

The Border States have to agree that the situation demands action. One State can't take action on their own or the illegals will just go around the rock in the river.

2. A coordinated mobilization of State National Guard and Air National Guard resources needs to be initiated by each of the Governors with the soul mission of protecting themselves, the public, private property, and securing the borders. The situation is like unto a natural disaster and should be dealt with by the respective State National Guards. Local residents in the affected areas do not have the resources to mount the required resistance. (Neighborhood Watch with Guns? Come on…how long can that be sustained?) The private citizens are outnumbered and out gunned. It would be a blood bath with too many US citizens on the bottom of the tub.

3. Persons entering illegally (seeking jobs, etc) should be detained at State detention camps until the DHS arranges to have them deported or provides them with citizenship.

Painful as it is, State taxes recovered against a wide range of subjects would have to be the resource to pay for the mobilization of State armed forces, the establishment and running of detention camps, and border security (since the Federal Government is incapable or unwilling to provide either). Let the States file suit to recover resources via the Federal Courts. (How long before that went to trial?)

Action is going to have to come from the Governments of the individual Border States. Local County and Township constabularies don't have the resources; not the people and not the armament.

Obviously I'm not a lawyer. This is just my own personal opinion. The situation is desparate and if action is not soon taken by the States very many of their citizens are going to be killed.

[nmap]

Why is there a problem with illegal immigration? The answer is simple, is it not? They expect to get goodies. Those goodies consist of jobs and various social programs.

How do we stop the problem? Again, it is simplicity itself. Eliminate the chance of getting the goodies.

Isn't it interesting that we, as a society, decade in and decade out, refuse to make any effort to pursue such policies? Could it be that the views stated by politicians are mere diversions from the truth? Might that truth be that the actual national policy is to permit (encourage?) illegal immigration in order to keep the cost of labor down?

Sidenote: Cheap labor costs improve business profits and keep prices down. Voters like low prices. Business owners with increased profits are happy (generous?) constituents.

All pure speculation. Probably wrong. MOO. YMMV.

[Richard]

Times have certainly changed since we used to satisfy our need for cheap labor by purchasing it from either the Portugese in Africa or the English seeking to drain their jails of debtors. Ahhhh...progress.

Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.

And so it goes...

Richard's jaded $.02

[nmap]

Originally Posted by Richard

Times have certainly changed since we used to satisfy our need for cheap labor by purchasing it from either the Portugese in Africa or the English seeking to drain their jails of debtors. Ahhhh...progress.

Well...in a way...it is progress. Instead of purchasing labor, we now get a short term rental. It frees up capital, and if the units of labor fail, we replace them with new units at no cost to us.

Occassionally, I reflect on the possibility that slavery was eliminated because it was no longer the cheapest model. But that would be cynical, wouldn't it?

[LarryW]

I respect both opinions. I believe the "goodies" they seek are things like safety for their kids, health care, and a wage they can use to support their families (among a slew of other things I can't begin to imagine).

If we want immigrant labor because we think that in hiring immigrants we will get cheap labor (never mind the collateral costs of health care and education) then let us reinvent the Bracero Program, only this time lets prosecute the farmers who abuse people by denying them a fair wage, access to education, and regular humanitarian aid.

http://www.farmworkers.org/bracerop.html

I remember this program in CA in the early 50's and went to school with many of the kids from these families. I recall some farmers provided good living conditions and some were ruthless. Corruption was everywhere and the people the program were supposed to help suffered. In the end it dissolved in '64 under the weight of the 60's. Before the program could recover it was over shadowed by the backdrop of the Civil Rights movement, the assassinations of JFK, MLK, and RFK, and the protests against the war in Vietnam.

IMHO, the issue is not immigration. It is the criminal importation of drugs and the exploitation of hungry people by their Coyotes. One is invasion of our country and the other a damned sin.

In the meantime, secure the borders...period.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by nmap

Isn't it interesting that we, as a society, decade in and decade out, refuse to make any effort to pursue such policies? Could it be that the views stated by politicians are mere diversions from the truth? Might that truth be that the actual national policy is to permit (encourage?) illegal immigration in order to keep the cost of labor down?

<<SNIP>>

All pure speculation. Probably wrong. MOO. YMMV.

With respect, this speculation does not serve the discussion of contemporary immigration policy well. Immigration policy (and its antecedents) have always been heatedly debated among civilians and statesmen. Arguing that politicians are acting in diversionary ways suggests that they, rather than American citizens, are the driving force behind this policy or that one.

Originally Posted by nmap

Occasionally, I reflect on the possibility that slavery was eliminated because it was no longer the cheapest model. But that would be cynical, wouldn't it?

This topic has been debated heatedly among historians for decades. IMO, scholars focusing on the experiences and political activities of slaves and slaveholders are turning the tide against this interpretation.

Originally Posted by LarryW

If we want immigrant labor because we think that in hiring immigrants we will get cheap labor (never mind the collateral costs of health care and education) then let us reinvent the Bracero Program[.]

FWIW, there are still Mexican nationals who participated in this program seeking the pay they earned <<LINK>>. IMO, if we're going to reboot this program, we will have to address some of the legacies of its predecessor.

In the meantime, secure the borders...period.

MOO, it would not be that simple. Regardless of the punctuation, another question will always follow.

[LarryW]

Yes, the Bracero Program had problems, but it was a way for immigrant people to come to this country and do the work. Any program to deal with the problem of ilegals working in the US is going to have to require study, and hopefully some integrity. But at some point shouldn't we expect some product or "thing" out of all this talk?

IMO our problem centers around "contemporary immigration policy" being discussed until the cows came home. Well, the critters have come and gone back out and still the air is filled with the smell of "the discussion". In the meantime we have LEOs in fear of their lives and their families lives. Punctuation be damned. The Federals seem to want to "discuss" while the States and the citizens suffer. That's wrong.

[nmap]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Arguing that politicians are acting in diversionary ways suggests that they, rather than American citizens, are the driving force behind this policy or that one.

Indeed it would, Sigaba, indeed it would.

[alelks]

I also think this has something to do with it but that's just my two cents worth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

[LarryW]

If we don't secure the borders and stop the wholesale threat against our citizens we won't have to wait 20+ years. I do not see how we can provide for the common defense or promote the general welfare unless we use some form of large scale military presence along our border with Mexico. Anybody think we can continue to ignore this condition and maybe just go on discussing the issue? Maybe if we hope hard enough it will go away?

[Nightfall]

I honestly think there is at least a *nugget* of truth to this in response to the particularly spooky video already mentioned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9Vw...eature=related

Watching what NAFTA is/has been doing to my father's company and what they did over in Euro-land just emphasizes it. I genuinely think they intend in the very near future to open the borders completely.

[Sten]

Originally Posted by Nightfall

I honestly think there is at least a *nugget* of truth to this in response to the particularly spooky video already mentioned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9Vw...eature=related

Watching what NAFTA is/has been doing to my father's company and what they did over in Euro-land just emphasizes it. I genuinely think they intend in the very near future to open the borders completely.

Please stop.

[nmap]

Originally Posted by Nightfall

I genuinely think they intend in the very near future to open the borders completely.

U.S. national policy for decades has emphasized free trade above many other considerations. It seems entirely possible that the concept will expand to free movement of people, as we see in the Euro-zone countries.

Not a good thing, IMO.

[Ret10Echo]

So should a Eurozone-like requirement for the neighboring nation to meet a certain economic status be a prerequisite for free movement? EU membership has requirements. Illegals are "forcibly" deported. They didn't just fling open the floodgates.

EU plans flights to deport illegal immigrants
The European Union is drawing up plans to charter its own flights to return illegal immigrants to their home countries.
By James Kirkup in Brussels
Published: 7:12PM GMT 29 Oct 2009
Under the plan, individual member states would be able to claim seats on planes for rejected asylum seekers they wish to remove.
The EU flights would then make multiple stops in different countries to collect deportees before flying on to their country of origin.
The plan for a common EU approach to repatriation flights is set to be approved by an EU summit in Brussels on Friday.
A document due to be debated at the summit shows that Frontex, the EU's external border agency, would fund and operate the shared flights.
The agency will be asked to explore the possibility of "regular chartering.... of joint return flights", the document says.
Britain is not a full member of Frontex, but helps fund the Warsaw-based agency and UK borders agency staff have been seconded to work for it.
The proposal, drawn up by Sweden, also calls for more joint naval operations between EU states aimed at intercepting the movement of would-be immigrants by sea.
There will also be greater dialogue with the Libyan authorities to persuade them to do more to prevent Libyans setting sail for Europe.
Some estimates suggest that more than 100,000 illegal immigrants enter the EU every year via the Mediterranean.
Most end up in Mediterranean countries, who are arguing for a "burden sharing" system where each EU state would get a quota of illegal immigrants it had to accommodate. Britain is strongly opposing that plan.
Some EU countries are already co-operating on deportation flights.
Earlier this month, Britain and France combined to charter a flight that returned 27 Afghans to their home country. Twenty-four had claimed asylum in the UK and three had claimed in France.
The flight sparked French political protests, but the government of Nicolas Sarkozy has pledged to push ahead with tougher immigration policies.
On their return to Afghanistan, the deportees were put up in hotels and offered £1,800 to help them resettle.
France last month dismantled "the jungle" at Calais, an impromptu refugee camp for illegal immigrants hoping to enter the UK from France.
The two countries have also agreed to establish a new co-ordination centre monitoring illegal immigration, based in Folkstone, Kent.
EU leaders say that a more co-ordinated approach to border control is starting to pay off.
Frontex this week said that illegal border crossings into the EU declined by 20 per cent in the first half of the year. However, asylum requests also increased 11 per cent.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...mmigrants.html

http://www.frontex.europa.eu/

[LarryW]

I must be dumb as the clay; for I cannot see the problem we are facing in and along the Border States as being one of immigration. It appears to be immigration. It appears to be economic. It appears to be a problem that can be addressed by intelligent minds discussing the history and logic of one point or another. IMO, the reality is that the problem is one of common criminals forcing their way into the US and resisting all legal means which might deter them, in other words, an invasion of criminals into sovereign US territory. That's what's going on. The first response has to come by addressing the porous condition of our borders, and the only way to do that IMO is with an armed military presence. We are otherwise doomed to see a good many US citizens, many of whom will be unarmed and completely innocent, being murdered in the crossfire as is already happening in Mexico. It's just a matter of time.