America - Let it Burn?

[BrainStorm]

After reading this, I oscillate between denial and panic at too high a frequency.

Let it Burn

Originally Posted by Demosthenes

For the past hundred years, America has been slowly moving away from the principles of its founding. The ideals of liberty, individual achievement, limited government, and the equality of opportunity have been slowly supplanted by calls for security, class warfare, excessive regulation, and the equality of outcome. The passage of stimulus acts, bailouts, government takeovers of two U.S. automakers, and the health care overhaul prove that our movement away from 1776 has accelerated.

Passage of the health care bill has sparked a revival of small-government thinking, causing many to predict significant Republican gains in Congress this fall. But despite some short-term success, this small-government revival is doomed to fail. The depressing truth is that the only way to regain the full measure of those freedoms proclaimed in our Founding Documents is for our current federal government to completely collapse under the weight of its own excesses.

Often, one carefully articulated analogy can succinctly convey a very complex idea. In our case, that analogy is addiction. Over the past hundred years, we have slowly allowed a monstrous system of dependence to develop until nearly every citizen relies upon government money, and thus is an addict. This has come about because the hard logic of the Founders has been replaced by the seductive ease of emotional arguments. All too often, the debate is over not if government should do something, but what it should do. This almost imperceptible shift in our national philosophy is a manifestation of our addiction.

While the citizen-addict is hooked on government largesse, the politician-addict is hooked on something far more sinister: power. Their drug is available in Washington, D.C. Just as a dealer will go to any length to continue selling his wares, politicians will stop at nothing to retain their power. These two groups of addicts are locked in mutual co-dependence, where the politician-addict seeking re-election buys off the citizen-addict with more spending. Then the citizen-addict, seeking yet another free lunch from Washington, reelects the politician-addict. The result is endless, ever-expanding government programs and our current fiscal nightmare.

The persistence of these programs has nothing to do with their success. They continue because we are more concerned that our actions are deemed compassionate than whether our programs are actually successful. If we truly wanted to help people save for retirement, we would not establish a program with a meager 1.23% rate of return while simultaneously supporting a monetary policy of systematic inflation. Yet these and other ineffective or even counterproductive programs continue. Such willful blindness to economic reality cannot be sustained indefinitely. The Congressional Budget Office has recently stated that our national debt will constitute 90% of our gross domestic product -- that is 20.3 trillion dollars -- in just ten years. What is even more shocking is that these debt numbers do not include the unfunded liabilities of Medicare and Social Security, which currently rest at 107 trillion dollars. Sadly, this trend cannot be stopped.

If Republicans take control of the House and Senate, and if they repeal the health care bill, then they will not be able (or likely even try) to reform Medicare or Social Security. These programs alone will bankrupt our nation. Yet they are untouchable because a large number of Americans have come to depend upon these benefits. They have become unknowingly hooked. Senior citizens have organized their financial futures around the twin promises of Social Security and Medicare and will naturally resist any change to either. George W. Bush knew this when he attempted his overhaul of Social Security. That is why his plan to privatize retirement savings was voluntary and would have excluded those over 55. Nevertheless, it was easy for the politician-addicts to scare the citizen-addicts, and his plan was defeated.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." This quote by Ben Franklin is often used by civil libertarians in opposition to government security programs such as the Patriot Act. But this sentiment is equally applicable to those who would give up economic liberty to obtain economic safety. The economic attitude of the nation has shifted. We are no longer a nation of self-sufficient, rugged individualists; we are now a nation of addicts, hooked on a politician's promises of economic safety.

This is why America is lost. Too many Americans are hooked for us to return to a sound economic footing via the normal political processes. Our efforts to moderate the most radical agendas -- welfare reform, for example -- serve only to delay the inevitable. In fact, many of those reforms are quietly undermined as the slow march towards collapse continues. We cannot alter our current trajectory; expansive government, greater entitlements, and ever-increasing taxes are our fate. Attempts by responsible citizens at reform will be only partially successful, not changing the fundamentals of our dilemma.

The addict analogy carries through to recovery. For most addicts, recovery can begin only once they have descended so far in their addiction that they lose everything, a process often called "hitting bottom." Sometimes there is no recovery, and hitting bottom means death. But for others, hitting bottom is a tremendous learning experience, and they emerge as better people. America is addicted. The decline has begun, and now our nation must hit bottom.

Detoxing America will cause social, political, and economic strife of a sort unimaginable, and yet it is a process we must endure. Hitting bottom is our only hope for a national rehabilitation. It is our only chance for a true reacquaintance with those principles that made this the greatest nation on earth: liberty, individual achievement, limited government, and the equality of opportunity.

Demosthenes is a lawyer whose current employment prohibits taking a public position on political issues.

[incarcerated]

Often, one carefully articulated analogy can succinctly convey a very complex idea.

Ordinarily, I am not real wild about the use of metaphors when discussing world events.

The depressing truth is that the only way to regain the full measure of those freedoms proclaimed in our Founding Documents is for our current federal government to completely collapse under the weight of its own excesses….Detoxing America will cause social, political, and economic strife of a sort unimaginable, and yet it is a process we must endure. Hitting bottom is our only hope for a national rehabilitation.

Be careful what you wish for. The organized Left specializes in agitation, and would look forward to social unrest and upheaval to further their agenda.
Most drug rehab does not work.

It is our only chance for a true reacquaintance with those principles that made this the greatest nation on earth: liberty, individual achievement, limited government, and the equality of opportunity.

It does not follow that any sort of reacquaintance with Liberty, the Founders’ intent etc. will flow from an economic collapse of the United States.

[akv]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Germans????

Respectfully, my take on Demosthenes post is he is in dire need of a beer and a nice day fishing, or at least a deep breath.

This is why America is lost. Too many Americans are hooked for us to return to a sound economic footing via the normal political processes.

Utter ignorant bullcrap. Think of the Great Depression, GDP down 50%, think of the Americans in bread lines, surely those folks were too far hooked to ever be productive again? Actually they went on to save the world by beating the tar out of the Nazi's and came back to build a superpower.

Yes we have challenges, America has overcome worse. The economy is in a tough cycle, and the current POTUS is simply a poor leader. Both of these conditions are divisive and temporary, the country tends to snap back to the right when thing get too loose.

Ironically, nations like Russia and Japan look at our challenges with envy. As birth rates have fallen with aging demographics, unless they can attract immigrants, they will not have the workers their economies need going forward. We on the other hand are trying to figure out how to curtail illegal immigration. Al Qaeda's goal of establishing a second Islamic Caliphate from shore to shore has failed, they are now crooning about failed attempts at terror, and being hunted by the security forces of the very Islamic governments they hoped to overthrow.

Perhaps once basic needs are met it is simply human nature to worry. Modern technology has accelerated the flow of information, but if you look back even the 1950's the good old days of " I like Ike" and "Leave it to Beaver" were filled with anxiety. This is actually when anti-depressants prescriptions began to ramp up. We had a brutal war in Korea, there was the constant overhanging threat of nuclear war with the Soviets. On the domestic front Sen. McCarthy was running around trying to find the infiltrating card carrying communists under every rock, and we had to address issues with segregation in Mobile and across the nation. These were the simpler times?, the "good old days"? We made it through then as we will now.

The American dream is alive and well, the spirit of innovation and competition, is still there. Demographics might change, societal norms may change, but the fact remains there is no match for America's military or economic might, and our freedoms and moral appeal still attract the best and brightest to our shores. Only when these factors change will this empire end.

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by BrainStorm

Demosthenes is a lawyer whose current employment prohibits taking a public position on political issues.

I find it hard to trust anyone who gives a reason why they can't stand behind what they say. Or is his economic standing more important than the nation's?

And to use his analogy...one does not have to hit "rock bottom" to recognize the need for recovery. It starts by admitting that you have a problem...and reach out for help.

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by akv

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? ....Germans????

shhh...he's on a roll.

[fng13]

IMHO anyone that thinks the only way for America to fix its problems is complete collapse has already given up on America and is a fool.

my .02

[Utah Bob]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

At 1:41

[Richard]

Hype-tripe.

Richard's $.02

[bandycpa]

Originally Posted by akv

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Germans????

"Forget it. He's rollin'".

[Irishsquid]

Originally Posted by akv

Utter ignorant bullcrap. Think of the Great Depression, GDP down 50%, think of the Americans in bread lines, surely those folks were too far hooked to ever be productive again? Actually they went on to save the world by beating the tar out of the Nazi's and came back to build a superpower.

Same could be said of the Soviets. The American People, IMO, have never yet broken that addiction. We are so totally and completely hooked on government that it is pathetic. I don't agree with the OP at all, but really? We "bounced back," from the great depression as a result of a World War, and MAJOR government spending increases. Are we going to start saying how great FDR was, too?

[6.8SPC_DUMP]

I don't know how to quantify “rock bottom” but applaud QP 1stindoor’s POV that recognition of the problems we face is key in dealing with them.

Respectfully AKV, I don’t think that accurate parallels can be made between the Great Depression and our current situation, in regards to the rebound of our productive economic prosperity. That’s not to say that America is inevitably doomed or that I want to abandon the country I love during hard times.

The US was the only major country to have emerged from WWII more prosperous than when it began. We alone were capable of reviving the world’s socio-economic equilibrium and global financial institutions. We did so by creating a network of Military installations that spanned virtually every region on the globe with an empire that sought global legitimacy through the collective input of other countries through the United Nations. (Though some obviously had greater voices than others.)

IMHO it was our charitable benevolence that had most nations initially welcoming our leadership and guidance – their incentive was to participate in greater economic prosperity.

Our influence and innovations enabled us to create and maintain the greatest Military force the world has ever seen. But by not maintaining adequate protectionism of our manufacturing, balancing the national budget and also deregulating financial institutions whose alliance is to their profits – we find ourselves in a position of relying on both “too big to fail” private institutions and other countries to facilitate the financing of our operations.

Those who advocate a dramatic loss of domestic freedoms in the name of national security will regret it if the tide gradually turns from Regionalism of world government institutions to a system of Universalism. The same could be said if Regionalism is maintained but we “go broke”.

Are we not already seeing the trend of first world nations monetizing their debt to the point where a new global lender will be needed? If this occurs private institutions will likely be in a position to print money out of thin air and reap the benefits of the interest they charge, as if they were making a loan with their own private capital.

Dollars like gold hold their value in their scarcity/abundance and we have inflated our liquid assets like crazy by printing more debt to replace our once vibrant economic growth. Seeing as we are so dependant on imports this could turn out very badly for the average standard of living for Americans. It’s being overlooked because of a breakdown of the traditional relationship between money and the measures of our economy and inflation. I think it’s unreasonable to forecast that this can be maintained indefinitely without consequence.

As things are we need to come up with the next great industrial revolution or reform the debt based system of central banks. That might not be to the benefit of the private interests who are so influential to our Representatives.

Just my .00002 Sound crazy?

[akv]

Originally Posted by Irishsquid

Same could be said of the Soviets. The American People, IMO, have never yet broken that addiction. We are so totally and completely hooked on government that it is pathetic. I don't agree with the OP at all, but really? We "bounced back," from the great depression as a result of a World War, and MAJOR government spending increases. Are we going to start saying how great FDR was, too?

The Soviets certainly did their part to win the war, while we helped them massively with supply, it's hard to refute of the 280 divisions in the German Army, 200 were on the Eastern front. The question raised by my read was not what the Russians contributed to the war, or the merits of FDR, but are Americans " so hooked" on government promises of economic safety we are lost?

First since you mention the Soviets, compared to the Soviet experience of big government, it's not even close. The initial post IMO ignores periods where the country has drifted to the right, particularly under Reagan, and Bush. We are not anywhere near the economic crisis of the Depression. If there was a time in US history where this "addiction" would have manifested it would have been during the 30's with economic woes, bread lines etc. Things were tough for a decade, it would have been very easy then to get used to government aid. The war certainly helped get us out of this, but at the end of the day Americans had to make the decision to get off aid, and work as jobs became available. Where was this "addiction" in the late 1940's and 50's when the country was booming? Folks that lived through the Depression and survived the war weren't sitting around waiting for the government to take care of them, they were starting families, building businesses and working. Perhaps you can make the argument folks back then were tougher, I'd agree. I also think less government is better, but IMHO we are just going through tough economic times and a shift to the left, in the past both have snapped back hard, I guess we will see.

[akv]

6.8SPC_DUMP Entire Post

6.8SPC_Dump,

I don't think your points sound crazy at all, you hit some of the challenges we face, perhaps I am more of a cynic. We have provided military stability in Europe since WW2, but equally important was the economic provisions of the Marshall Plan and Bretton Woods, more so IMHO than any "charitable benevolence". The Soviets were a real threat. The deal we made with Western Europe and Japan was okay, first we will defend you, (NATO), second we will rebuild your economies and basically ensure your economic success by committing to buying your goods. A constant foreign budget deficit isn't abnormal with this model since the US consumer is contributing to stability abroad.

Now times change, and empires fade, I'm not saying America is immune to this, I agree Third World economies are developing and will take a bigger piece of the pie, but militarily or economically where is the challenger?

Militarily our geography and the US Navy's control of the seas makes us a tough target. We can retain the role of a spoiling state, we just need to maintain the balance of power status quo abroad. Nuclear Proliferation is the biggest challenge.

Economically, where is this successor? In the 1980's we thought it was Japan, they had bad loans and haven't done anything but maintain employment for over a decade, they are also running out of population. The Europeans, maybe if they could ever put aside their cultural differences and unite, but they are as evidenced by the current Greek Euro debt crisis as fragmented as they ever where. They have a common currency (for now) and defense pact (for now), but they don't share a common government or fate. America got past that in 1865. You live in NY, I live in CA while we may argue the Dodgers vs Yankees, we share a congruency in being Americans first and a shared fate, when I hear of the bombing attempt in Times Square I am fired up. To the Germans, the Greeks are lazy irresponsible slackers, and the Greeks don't want to be under Germany's thumb. Okay so maybe the Chinese or the Indians, both countries here have a chance to develop, but both are cursed with overpopulation and dangerously widening income gap, I think China will implode because of this.

Domestically , I don't mean to be pie in the sky, I agree the standard of living will likely go down in the near term with unemployment here. We certainly face tough economic challenges going forward I think it gets much worse before it gets better, and we need to address regulations for OTC derivatives, this healthcare time bomb and the Mexican border violence are real serious issues, but we will endure and move forward.

[DJ Urbanovsky]

I see many flawed points in that original article, but this is what jumps out at me most:

The problems we face stem from international banking - our government is merely a control mechanism. Money changers are the true string pullers, and they've been so since before our country was founded. The article spends too much time bemoaning our government and dual political parties. I doesn't go to the root.

We aren't addicted to government money, we're addicted to Federal Reserve notes. The Fed is a private institution made up of a ruling council of member banks, and it's no more Federal than is Federal Express. They print our money for pennies on the dollar, and then loan it to our government. It's not backed by anything but numbers, and it only has value because we've all agreed to use it as a medium of exchange. Even worse, the Fed is a private organization that is essentially accountable to no one. Since it's inception, it has NEVER been audited.

It is situations like this that allowed the derivative bubble to happen. "Bright" boys building a house of cards, turning small numbers into big numbers with slight of hand. Works out fine until one of those cards fall, and then they all fall.

It's all written out in the pages of history if people would bother to look. But most people don't.

[Richard]

We aren't addicted to government money, we're addicted to Federal Reserve notes. The Fed is a private institution made up of a ruling council of member banks, and it's no more Federal than is Federal Express. They print our money for pennies on the dollar, and then loan it to our government. It's not backed by anything but numbers, and it only has value because we've all agreed to use it as a medium of exchange. Even worse, the Fed is a private organization that is essentially accountable to no one. Since it's inception, it has NEVER been audited.

You seem mightily confused in these statements - might wanna read the Federal Reserve Act and the laws pertaining to the Federal Reserve Banking System sometime.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/fract.htm

It's all written out in the pages of history if people would bother to look. But most people don't.

Historically - the ability to delude oneself seems to be an important survival tool.

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02