FBI agent investigating the Hutaree 'milita' rather cluless

[Streck-Fu]

Agent who led the investigation seems to have little knowledge what was actually going on. I'm not surprised....LINK


FBI agent short on details on militia inquiry
ASSOCIATED PRESS

DETROIT - An FBI agent who led the investigation of nine Michigan militia members charged with trying to launch war against the federal government couldn't recall many details of the two-year probe yesterday during questioning by defense lawyers.

Even the judge who must decide whether to release the nine until trial was puzzled.

"I share the frustrations of the defense team … that she doesn't know anything," U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts said after agent Leslie Larsen confessed she hadn't reviewed her notes recently and couldn't remember specific details of the case.

Judge Roberts is hearing an appeal of another judge's order that has kept members of so-called Hutaree militia in jail since their arrest in late March.

The indictment says the nine planned to kill police officers as a steppingstone to a widespread uprising against the federal government.

Defense lawyers, however, say their clients are being punished for being outspoken.

Prosecutors fought to keep Ms. Larsen off the witness stand, saying the defendants had no legal right to question her.

But the judge said the agent's appearance was appropriate because the burden is on defense lawyers to show their clients won't be a threat to the public if released.

The nine lawyers asked specific questions about each defendant. Ms. Larsen said she had not listened entirely to certain recordings made by an undercover agent who infiltrated the group.

She said that because they were still being examined, she didn't know if weapons seized by investigators last month were illegal.

At other times, Ms. Larsen couldn't answer questions because she said she hadn't reviewed investigative reports.

Defense lawyer William Swor asked if the No. 1 defendant, Hutaree leader David Stone, had ever instructed anyone to make a bomb.

"I can't fully answer that question," the agent replied.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Tukel defended Ms. Larsen, telling the judge it wasn't clear until Monday that she would testify.

Judge Roberts, however, said she told the government to be prepared last week.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Waterstreet played an audiotape of what he said were several militia members talking freely about killing police.

The participants talked over each other, often laughed and made goofy noises and disparaging remarks about law enforcement.

Prosecutors objected to questions about interpreting the secretly recorded conversations, but the judge said they were fair game.

The judge will resume the court hearing today.

Prosecutors will have a chance to question people who are willing to be responsible for some of the nine if they are released from jail.

[Paslode]

Nothing like wasting the Judges time to get on their good side.



And there is this;

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/decla...nt-hatred.aspx

Posted Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:00 PM
Gun-Dealer Case Sheds New Light on Hutaree Antigovernment Hatred
Michael Isikoff
A Michigan-based firearms dealer indicted this week on an unrelated federal gun charge had sold about a half dozen weapons to members of the extremist Hutaree militia group that was plotting to assassinate police, a federal law-enforcement official tells Declassified.

The indictment of Walter Priest, owner of Gun Outfitters in Adrian, Mich., has so far received no national attention. In large part, this is because there is no evidence that he was in any way involved or even aware of the Hutarees' bizarre plans—as alleged by federal prosecutors—to "wage war" against the U.S. government.

But his case sheds new light on the Hutarees' scary antigovernment passions (shared by more than a few militia groups), particularly their hatred of the beleaguered federal agency that enforces the country's gun laws: the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

The hatred of ATF, of course, is nothing new. In the years before the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, fear and loathing of the agency helped fuel the militia movement. The anti-ATF passions were egged on by the National Rifle Association, which denounced ATF agents as "jackbooted government thugs."

Now, some watchdog and gun-control groups fear, those passions may be returning, helping to stoke an apparent resurgence of extremist militia and patriot groups united in their zealous opposition to any firearms enforcement.

Priest, 52, came onto the ATF's radar screen in July 2008 when he attended a Michigan gun show and sold a Remington rifle with the serial number altered or obliterated, according to the law-enforcement official. The customer then alerted local police, who tipped off ATF.

The ownership or sale of a gun with an altered serial number is a federal crime and one of major concern to ATF: it makes the gun untraceable in the event it gets seized in the course of other criminal investigations, ranging from routine street crimes to sophisticated drug-trafficking conspiracies.

After receiving the tip, ATF conducted an inspection of Gun Outfitters in November 2008. An ATF spokesman said there was nothing unusual about the inspection; its agents were checking Priest's paperwork and inventory, something the agency is empowered to do as part of its core mission to regulate federally licensed firearms dealers. But the inspection seems to have triggered a furious reaction from the Hutarees, some of whose members lived near Priest's gun store.

"Looks like the ATF enforcers are looking for a reason to start a firefight," David Brian Stone, a.k.a. "Captain Hutaree," the alleged leader of the group, wrote in an e-mail. "And we will answer the call." (The e-mail was recently read in court by a federal prosecutor and reported by Paul Egan of The Detroit News.)

It's not clear how Stone or any of the other Hutarees became aware of the ATF's inspection of Gun Outfitters. But the federal law-enforcement official (who asked not to be identified because of the ongoing nature of the probe) said that Priest and the Hutarees "knew each other" and that Gun Outfitters had sold members of the group about five handguns and one semiautomatic rifle—all of them legal purchases.

There also seems to have been other reasons for the Hutarees to have taken an interest in Priest's case. Priest's 24-year-old son Jason, who had worked at Gun Outfitters between 2007 and last year, had been arrested in January 2009 after local police responded to an complaint of assault by a member of his girlfriend's family. They discovered an arsenal of weapons in his apartment that included an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle with no serial number, a suspected silencer, ammunition, a tactical vest with spare magazines, and camouflage clothing. Many of these items were packed into a black bag, referred to as a "go bag" for combat, according to a sentencing memorandum filed by federal prosecutors last month.

Jason Priest also had what federal prosecutors described as an "extensive criminal history" that include charges of possessing explosives "with intent to terrorize," multiple probation violations, theft, and a conviction for possession of a switchblade, according to the sentencing memorandum. As The Detroit News's Egan reported, federal prosecutors have outlined an apparent relationship between Jason Priest and the Hutarees: after Jason Priest was arrested, Hutaree leader Stone and his son Joshua approached Walter Priest and offered to break his son out of jail. Walter Priest rebuffed the offer, prosecutors have said.

Harold Gurewitz, Walter Priest's lawyer, declined to comment on anything related to the Hutarees, other than to stress that the indictment of his client—for possession of the gun with the altered serial number—has nothing to do with the case against the militia group. (He also said his client could plead not guilty and contest the charge.) William Swor, Stone's lawyer, declined to comment. Jason Priest, who was sentenced to nine years in prison by a federal judge for federal firearms charges, could not be reached for comment.

And in regard to the indictment against Walter Priest

knowingly possessed a firearm, specifically described as (1) Remington Arms Model 700, 12 Caliber Rifle

http://www.scribd.com/doc/30341832/W...est-Indictment

[Don]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

Agent who led the investigation seems to have little knowledge what was actually going on. I'm not surprised.... LINK

FBI agent short on details on militia inquiry
ASSOCIATED PRESS

DETROIT - An FBI agent who led the investigation of nine Michigan militia members charged with trying to launch war against the federal government couldn't recall many details of the two-year probe yesterday during questioning by defense lawyers.

Even the judge who must decide whether to release the nine until trial was puzzled.

Break/Break

Originally Posted by Don

I was re-reading this thread to see if anyone else was thinking along similar lines as myself…or whether or not I needed to stop by the tinfoil hat store on my way home from work today.

I think it is not coincidental that something like this happened during this recent period of civil unrest...and specifically right after the government forced thru legislation without consent of the governed. Although we have not had riots, there is something growing among regular Joes that I think have people in DC very nervous and which they view as a real threat. How do you send a message to those folks? Show them what can happen if you openly express opposition to the Government.

What do we know about the plot to ambush a police officer, kill a policeman’s family, and subsequently kill attendees at a funeral? Well, we know exactly what somebody has chosen to release to the media. We surely don’t have the full story. How many guys here, EVER, over a beer with buddies have discussed something like…”Hell, if you want to cause a real shitstorm at (name the location) I would (describe your operation to bust thru the gate, take out the guards, blow the building, and escape) . Basically, “this is how I’d do it…”.

I do understand these were not just a group of guys in a bar, but an actual organization. But it would be intersting to see what evidence is presented in court. If the undercover agent, when discussing how he heard of the plot to kill the officer says, "we were in a bar drinking and Mr. Gitcheegoomie said, "Hell, if you want to cause a real shitstorm at (name the location) this is how I’d do it..." I will not be surprised. I have much higher expectations of federal LE...but if this has any political influence, all bets are off.

My comments are not a defense of the Hutaree. I do not agree with what little I have seen of their belief system and I disagree with almost all of the limited stuff I have seen from their own website. The “evil Jew” forum is ass-hattery of the highest degree.

MHO is…it is possible these fools were tagged for political purposes. I suppose we will see when they get to court.

break/break

Originally Posted by Don

The only documentation I have seen from law enforcement is the grand jury indictment. I have not yet seen an affidavit (as Defender noted in his post) from anyone regarding the plot. If he meant Indictment instead of affidavit, that’s one thing. If there is an affidavit out there please post it so we can better understand the context of the charges.

Again, I am not defending the Hutaree, but I am skeptical about the motivations of federal authorities at times. For some reason, this incident has made me go “Hmmmmmmm”. Having watched the militia witch hunt that followed the Oklahoma City bombing, I could not for the life of me figure out why the media was at Ft Bragg making a national story over the Resistor. 60 minutes showed up at Bragg and interviewed guys from 7th, 3rd, and SWC regarding the SF Underground. I never met anyone in SF that said they were a member of the underground, or a militia, or expressed any desire to join/establish/lead any type of group like that. I am not saying people like that don’t exist in SF…I am just saying that is my personal experience and as they say, “experiences may vary”.

This site is generally an excellent barometer of opinion for me. So when reading thru this topic I saw a definite group opinion that was not consistent with the way I was looking at the situation, I started asking myself, “Is it time for the tinfoil Captains hat…or a lead-lined Fedora.”

My thought is not that there is some group conspiracy from FBI agents to quash civil rights. I do realize, however, the Director of the FBI is a political appointment (the President picks the person), unlike the agents that execute the mission. I drew a personal conclusion that there was something not exactly right with this. I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, alluding to an idea the Hutaree are totally innocent, God-fearing, “people next door”, because clearly they are not like anyone I have ever associated. I do live in Georgia, but I haven’t yet been invited to an AR-15 themed wedding, and we all know from looking at “redneck wedding photos” how crazy Bubba and his kin can get.

My apologies if I overstepped the “rhetoric line” by using the term “consent of the governed”. I wanted to generate discussion not get into a knife-fight over healthcare legislation. I just thought it a necessary inject to explain how we get from point A (Government doing something very unpopular) to point B (Militia group plotting against Government) to point C (silence the critics). Hopefully this clears it up a bit.

…and does this little lapse in the agents “rememberability” (I just love me some Bush-isms) tend to prove/disprove any of the points in my rants from the original thread or not? If you disagreed with my assertion this just might have been a political ploy, does this make you say,WTF? Granted, this was simply a bond hearing…but if an experienced FBI agent (I don’t think you get “Lead Investigator” right out of the academy) can’t answer questions that determine if the defendants get out on bond…how you gonna do at the actual trial?

Either the action against the Hutaree was prematurely executed...the FBI Lead Investigator is incompetent…the DA that brought the charges incompetent…there was no real case in the first place…or the Defense attorneys are absolutely brilliant. Any other angles to this situation?

[Green Light]

…and does this little lapse in the agents “rememberability” (I just love me some Bush-isms) tend to prove/disprove any of the points in my rants from the original thread or not?

I'm not gonna speechify to much on that (bushism). I just love Fred, Barny, and Irving. They're so professional.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Don

Break/Break



break/break

…and does this little lapse in the agents “rememberability” (I just love me some Bush-isms) tend to prove/disprove any of the points in my rants from the original thread or not? If you disagreed with my assertion this just might have been a political ploy, does this make you say,WTF? Granted, this was simply a bond hearing…but if an experienced FBI agent (I don’t think you get “Lead Investigator” right out of the academy) can’t answer questions that determine if the defendants get out on bond…how you gonna do at the actual trial?

Either the action against the Hutaree was prematurely executed...the FBI Lead Investigator is incompetent…the DA that brought the charges incompetent…there was no real case in the first place…or the Defense attorneys are absolutely brilliant. Any other angles to this situation?

Another angle. Excuses as I forgot or I don't know didn't fly with my parents, it was indicative of lying.

This 'memory loss' by the Lead Investigator just fans the flames and provides additional evidence to some that the FEDs blindly follow orders, thry are jackbooted thugs, your guilty until proven innocent, the NWO is coming, FEMA Camps etc...etc. Many have are the opinion, that if they were Muslims in Islamberg we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I see their point to a degree.

[Don]

Originally Posted by Paslode

Another angle....

I knew you'd be along shortly.

Hey...how do you like my new hat?

tinfoilhat.jpg

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Don

I knew you'd be along shortly.

Hey...how do you like my new hat?

Attachment 15327

That is a killer hat! How many rolls of Reynolds did it take?

[Don]

Originally Posted by Paslode

That is a killer hat! How many rolls of Reynolds did it take?

Just one...I incorporated the throat/neck protector in the ATH (Advanced Tinfoil Hat). My ESAPI (Enhanced Shortwave Attenuated Protective Insert) vest is in development (will also include groin protection).

[Paslode]

There might be a market for that device

[Animal8526]

I'll tell you what...

those dudes get out on bail and they might just become the most dangerous dudes in america for a bit.

Even if they were all talk no walk to begin with, the feds made them national news... having your bluff called in front of the entire nation you claim to love is a tough pill to swallow, I bet.

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by Animal8526

I'll tell you what...

those dudes get out on bail and they might just become the most dangerous dudes in america for a bit.

Even if they were all talk no walk to begin with, the feds made them national news... having your bluff called in front of the entire nation you claim to love is a tough pill to swallow, I bet.

If they get off and their smart, they will maintain a low profile and be a bit more aware. The danger is their peer group will become galvanized in their feelings towards the Government.

[orion5]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

FBI agent short on details on militia inquiry
ASSOCIATED PRESS

DETROIT - An FBI agent who led the investigation of nine Michigan militia members charged with trying to launch war against the federal government couldn't recall many details of the two-year probe yesterday during questioning by defense lawyers.

Even the judge who must decide whether to release the nine until trial was puzzled.

"I share the frustrations of the defense team … that she doesn't know anything," U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts said after agent Leslie Larsen confessed she hadn't reviewed her notes recently and couldn't remember specific details of the case.

Am I the only one who finds this very suspicious? An agent works on something for 2 years, her bad guys get caught, which should be the highlight of her year, she then has to appear in court, but doesn't "know anything" and "can't recall details" and "hadn't reviewed her notes recently"?

I'm not buying it. I think some other game is being played by the FBI or someone.....the average FBI agent is much smarter than that.

[Don]

Originally Posted by orion5

Am I the only one who finds this very suspicious? An agent works on something for 2 years, her bad guys get caught, which should be the highlight of her year, she then has to appear in court, but doesn't "know anything" and "can't recall details" and "hadn't reviewed her notes recently"?

I'm not buying it. I think some other game is being played by the FBI or someone.....the average FBI agent is much smarter than that.

Re-read post #3 (or read it if you haven't already). That came from the original Hutaree Militia thread when the arrests happened. There were big question marks from the beginning.

[orion5]

Thanks, Don, I had read your post. I should have written mine more clearly.

You could be right about an Obama administration private agenda on quashing civil rights and using the FBI to send a message.

Others had indicated pure incompetency on the part of the FBI agent.

I was suggesting it was neither of the above. That there is some other agenda of the FBI either in regards to this particular agent, or some other facet of this case that is not yet known by the public. I can't believe she was that unprepared and clueless. Even if she truly was that bad, why would her bosses let her appear in court on such a significant/sensitive case and basically have nothing to say.

Doesn't pass the basic logic test. But what do I know.............

[Don]

Originally Posted by orion5

Thanks, Don, I had read your post. I should have written mine more clearly.

You could be right about an Obama administration private agenda on quashing civil rights and using the FBI to send a message.

Others had indicated pure incompetency on the part of the FBI agent.

I was suggesting it was neither of the above. That there is some other agenda of the FBI either in regards to this particular agent, or some other facet of this case that is not yet known by the public. I can't believe she was that unprepared and clueless. Even if she truly was that bad, why would her bosses let her appear in court on such a significant/sensitive case and basically have nothing to say.

Doesn't pass the basic logic test. But what do I know.............

Maybe because it no longer matters. The purpose has been served. Now the pawns are left to clean up the mess. Nothing to see here...move along....