Obama authorizes assassination of US Citizen?

[Ryanr]

Curious to hear your thoughts on this one:

• http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...assassinations

Today, both The New York Times and The Washington Post confirm that the Obama White House has now expressly authorized the CIA to kill al-Alwaki no matter where he is found, no matter his distance from a battlefield. I wrote at length about the extreme dangers and lawlessness of allowing the Executive Branch the power to murder U.S. citizens far away from a battlefield (i.e., while they're sleeping, at home, with their children, etc.) and with no due process of any kind. I won't repeat those arguments -- they're here and here -- but I do want to highlight how unbelievably Orwellian and tyrannical this is in light of these new articles today.

Just consider how the NYT reports on Obama's assassination order and how it is justified:

The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is believed to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the United States to directly participating in them, intelligence and counterterrorism officials said Tuesday. . . .

American counterterrorism officials say Mr. Awlaki is an operative of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the affiliate of the terror network in Yemen and Saudi Arabia. They say they believe that he has become a recruiter for the terrorist network, feeding prospects into plots aimed at the United States and at Americans abroad, the officials said.

It is extremely rare, if not unprecedented, for an American to be approved for targeted killing, officials said. A former senior legal official in the administration of George W. Bush said he did not know of any American who was approved for targeted killing under the former president. . . .

"The danger Awlaki poses to this country is no longer confined to words," said an American official, who like other current and former officials interviewed for this article spoke of the classified counterterrorism measures on the condition of anonymity. "He’s gotten involved in plots."

No due process is accorded. No charges or trials are necessary. No evidence is offered, nor any opportunity for him to deny these accusations (which he has done vehemently through his family).

[Pete]

"........killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is believed to have shifted from encouraging attacks on the United States to directly participating in them......"

I just can't seem to find my "I Care" T-Shirt right now.

[Dozer523]

The picked bone isn't that the Executive Branch has authorized an assignation, it's that the target is still an American Citizen.
We should strip him of his privileged citizenship and then hunt the stateless bastard down. Let's see what countries offer him citizenship, then.

[nmap]

Originally Posted by Dozer523

The picked bone isn't that the Executive Branch has authorized an assignation, it's that the target is still an American Citizen.

Truly. From the rest of the article, I get the impression that there are no checks and balances that restrict exercise of this executive power. And once the precedent is established, it becomes easier to repeat the process.

We cannot know who will be POTUS in 2018 - will they still use this power wisely?

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by nmap

Truly. From the rest of the article, I get the impression that there are no checks and balances that restrict exercise of this executive power. And once the precedent is established, it becomes easier to repeat the process.

We cannot know who will be POTUS in 2018 - will they still use this power wisely?

I am with you. I don't like anyone having the power to authorize a hit. But we have gotten used to it since (due to "time factors") the President can authorize nuclear war. And "The Buck Stops (t)Here".

[Box]

The US citizenship does have a funny taste...
...but at least there is some proof that the POTUS has a set of balls

I may be at odds with 100% of his social ideology but the CinC is supposed to be man enough to say "go get 'im boys" when the time is right, regardless of 'polling numbers'

The time is right...


good on you Mr Obama


even 'Mr Policeman' will bust a cap in your ass.... US citizenship or not if you are a bad guy out hurtin' folk

...didnt a cop shoot a soldier on a US Military base not long ago?
That soldier was a US citizen, and the cop is considered to be a hero now...

Dont take this as a shift in by political base, but I support the POTUS on this one.

[lksteve]

I don't care if al-Awlaki wakes up dead...but I don't like the idea of any administration assuming such broad authority...I don't want to see an American life put at risk attempting to capture him for trial, but I'd hate to think that any President could declare any citizen an enemy of the state and hunt them down like a dog overseas...it's a slippery slope and I have no faith in the current administration...

[Green Light]

His citizenship is a minor bump in the road. These are stateless terrorists. This guy doesn't pass the "So What Test". Kill him, them move on.

[Box]

heres my angle....

for years the dumbacrats spent great effort at illustrating GWB as the bad guy
Dubya didnt fly an aircraft into a building and didnt put IEDs in the road...

...as the POTUS he may have bEgan a scorched earth policy on those that caused it, but everyone that had an axe to grind with republican politics stayed up late studying ways to show how everything (including a hurricane) was 'Dubyas' fault
...HELL WE ELECTED THE CURRENT POTUS SIMPLY SO DUBYA COULDNT GET REELECTED


fuck that

This guy we are discussing is a fucking terrorist, plotting against his country men. Bringing him to justice does not include three hots and a cot, and a tree hugging liberal attorney that will inevitably blame this mans poor life choices on George Bushes economy and the Rush Limbaugh radio sh0w.

fuck that... off with his head

I cant become one of those who finds fault with everything the POTUS does, or accuse him of devilish behavior because he used his salad fork instead of his shrimp fork. I would not help him get elected as county dog catcher, but today he is the POTUS and wants us to go kill the enemy, (foreign and domestic if memory of my oath is correct)
If that labels me as a fascist, or worse yet, an Obama supporter, well, so be it.

Sticking to my guns on this one... off with his head, Mr Awlaki he would surely provide any one of us with the same level of respect.

[SF_BHT]

Originally Posted by Dozer523

I am with you. I don't like anyone having the power to authorize a hit. But we have gotten used to it since (due to "time factors") the President can authorize nuclear war. And "The Buck Stops (t)Here".

It is not a HIT. The order is to capture or kill. Hell he has a 50% chance of surviving the missile hit. If he is dazed we might fly in and pick him up but I hear GUITMO is closing so there is no room at the Inn. Damn I guess his odds are getting lower ref the little black bird picking him up...... Hell then you have to worry about him filling charges of being ruffed up by the capture team. Dead Men Tell No Lies.......

[craigepo]

Benedict Arnold was an American citizen and soldier when he committed treason. When he was discovered, he fled to a British warship. Later, he commanded British troops against American troops on American soil. Had he been shot and killed while so doing, his death would have been justified, as he had become an enemy soldier/combatant.

In my opinion, at some point, a person committing treasonous acts becomes an actual enemy of the state, and is no longer to be afforded the rights of citizenship(i.e. due process, right to jury, etc). I would think this determination must be made on a case-by-case basis; I would have a hard time articulating a "bright-line test" to be used in every case.

I have no problems with the Commander in Chief making this determination; both the legislature and judiciary are too unwieldy to so do in a timely manner. We elected the President to make this type of determination.

While I disagree with many of President Obama's decisions, I agree with this one.

[nmap]

Originally Posted by Billy L-bach

Sticking to my guns on this one... off with his head, Mr Awlaki he would surely provide any one of us with the same level of respect.

Awlaki is not, at least in my opinion, the problem. To use a classic Southern phrase, he needs killin'. Feed him, while still alive and aware, to the pigs for all I care.

The difficulty lies in the precedent. When a police officer uses deadly force, he personally faces the full consequences of his actions. It is less likely that any POTUS will face such sanctions for applying the terrorist label. I cannot help but wonder who we will see as terrorists 25 years in the future. The political landscape was different back in 1985. What will it be in 2035? And who will we label as terrorists then?

I would only ask that we consider how some hypothetical president in 2018 or beyond might use this power. It offers the possibility of abuse, IMO. If men were perfect, we would not need checks and balances. However, the founders seemed to believe that men were imperfect - and I hesitate to argue with their conclusion.

[Peregrino]

Institute judicial proceedings (or whatever the legally/constitutionally required proceedures are) and strip him of his citizenship. As a matter of principle I disagree with the US government ordering the extra-judicial killing of AMCITs. After he's "stateless" then kill him. Put a bounty on his head and let good ol' capitalism solve the problem (sorry, got carried away and forgot which POTUS we were discussing).

Does this mean the Executive Order banning assassinations is rescinded?

Originally Posted by Peregrino

Institute judicial proceedings (or whatever the legally/constitutionally required proceedures are) and strip him of his citizenship. As a matter of principle I disagree with the US government ordering the extra-judicial killing of AMCITs. After he's "stateless" then kill him. Put a bounty on his head and let good ol' capitalism solve the problem (sorry, got carried away and forgot which POTUS we were discussing).

Does this mean the Executive Order banning assassinations is rescinded?

I waver back and forth on this issue. He is a terrorist he needs dead.. he is an American citizen he should be afforded due process.

If we, as a nation, allow one person, even a traitor, to NOT be afforded his due process rights. Then we, as a nation, set the precedent, to have our own selves, for any reason that any administration can conjur up, to round us all up and kill/perm detain us?

I am reminded of McCarthyism and its treatment of American Citizens.

That said, I hope a bomb accidently falls on him.
AM

What would be so hard about charging and trying him in absentia of Treason?

[Ryanr]

Originally Posted by armymom1228

That said, I hope a bomb accidently falls on him.

Indeed.