Trial starts for agent charged in gun sales

[JAGO]

A couple of things come to mind.....

Obviously there are a lot of facts that will come out in court, but:

If they will go after him, they will certainly come after one of us for selling guns. Most of us have done some private transactions but I fear where this may end up; and,

Any time you talk to the cops you put yourself at risk. He appeared to "cooperate" and then became a suspect? Remember Martha Stewart? Remember Scooter Libby? Remember all those sports stars with performance enhancing substances? Well, Stewart did not engage in inside trading. She was convicted for false statements. Libby did not "out" the CIA agent, he was convicted for false statements. Dittos on the sports stars. If you talk to the feds and your story changes or they don't like the story you provide, 18 USC 1001 is a real Bee Itch.

v/r
phil

http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_148271...lpasotimes.com

Trial starts for agent charged in gun sales
By Maggie Ybarra \ El Paso Times
Posted: 04/06/2010 12:00:00 AM MDT


EL PASO -- An FBI agent accused of illegally selling about 50 guns for more than $118,000 went on trial Monday in U.S. District Court.

The agent, John Thomas Shipley, 40, is charged with six counts of selling the firearms without a license from January 2005 to May 2008. He is also accused of providing Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents with false sales records.

His lawyer, Robert Perez, told the jury in his opening statement that buying and selling guns was Shipley's hobby.

Perez said Shipley bought guns to enhance his firearm collection. He only sold those that did not meet his standards, Perez said.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Gregory McDonald, representing the government, said Shipley tried to hide his illegal actions by giving false sales records to federal agents after they traced a gun used in a shootout in Chihuahua, Mexico, back to him.

"Mr. Shipley, acting like he was going to help them, instead laid a trail -- a trail of deceit," McDonald said.

McDonald brought more than 20 guns into the courtroom, including handguns, shotguns and long-range sniper guns, to show the jury the range of firearms Shipley had dealt.

Some of the weapons cost about $500 while others cost more than $11,000, McDonald said.

Special Agent Andrea Simmons, spokeswoman for the FBI in El Paso, said Shipley's status is that he is suspended without pay.

Brett Fleming, evidence custodian for the ATF, testified that Shipley was originally considered a witness and seemed to be cooperative. Then Shipley provided the ATF with a retail book where items were missing the sales amount, making agents suspicious, Fleming said.

"He said he would get in trouble with his wife if she knew how much he was spending on guns," he said.

Perez said Shipley was trying to be cooperative and had been informed of the investigation into his gun sales while he was training in Dallas.

The records were supplied in a rush but were as accurate as Shipley could make them, Perez said.

Prosecutors said Shipley listed guns on a Web site more than 200 times.

Maggie Ybarra may be reached at mybarra@elpasotimes.com; 546-6151.

[rdret1]

http://www.ticklethewire.com/wp-cont...as-shipley.pdf

This is a copy of the indictment. The problem is not that he talked to police, the problem is he lied. According to the indictment, he sold over $118,000 worth of firearms. You are allowed to "occassionally" sell a firearm without an FFL, including from a personal collection. According to the indictment, he went way beyond that.

As everyone who has ever purchased a firearm knows, you have to fill out an ATF 4473 when you buy it stating you are the purchaser of the weapon and it does belong to you. Apparently, he falsified several of these, making actual straw purchases for third parties, with the full intent of purchasing the weapons and immediately transferring them to a third party.

He also got in trouble by conducting actual interstate transactions over the internet. You cannot do this without going through a FFL holder. This guy was a federal law enforcement agent. He knew the rules and thought he could use his position to circumvent them for a profit.

IMHO, this guy is not the victim of some "entrapment" ploy, he is someone who thought he could abuse his position as an FBI agent to supplement his retirement.

[Richard]

50 guns for more than $118,000 from 2005-2008? Even in Texas, that's a lot of weapons for one person to be buying and selling.

IMHO, this guy is not the victim of some "entrapment" ploy, he is someone who thought he could abuse his position as an FBI agent to supplement his retirement.

I, too, agree with that point-of-view.

Richard's $.02

[JAGO]

Originally Posted by Richard

50 guns for more than $118,000 from 2005-2008? Even in Texas, that's a lot of weapons for one person to be buying and selling.



I, too, agree with that point-of-view.

Richard's $.02

An average of one (+) gun per month for 3 years? The East (and West) coasts probably regard that as excessive - the South and mid-America look at that as business as usual!

Reading the indictment (which every USAO warns is only an allegation - not proof) he told people he could get guns cheaper because he was a fed.... I suspect that if he had actually misused his federal office to self deal, there would be a lot more charges.

Back to the point about agreeing to talk: Feds Drop Lying Charges Against 2 SEALs, But More Charges Remain http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/07...est=latestnews

It seems more often than not nowadays, that cooperation has lots of unintended consequences. You still can say "not guilty" without risk - but that is about it

v/r
phil

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by JAGO

An average of one (+) gun per month for 3 years? The East (and West) coasts probably regard that as excessive - the South and mid-America look at that as business as usual!

v/r
phil

Alas, not in this economy.

[rdret1]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

Alas, not in this economy.

Definitely. I have been fortunate and been able to pick up a few in the last few months, but that was putting them on lay-a-way. I have a Springfield XD .45 on lay-a-way right now.

[fng13]

I'm curious then how private estate sales get away with selling large amounts of firearms at a time.

I wish I had 50 firearms, let alone be able to get rid of any because they weren't "up to my standards."

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by fng13

I'm curious then how private estate sales get away with selling large amounts of firearms at a time.

I wish I had 50 firearms, let alone be able to get rid of any because they weren't "up to my standards."

Estate and collection sales are not a problem. The problem is selling a lot of guns that you just bought.

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by rdret1

Definitely. I have been fortunate and been able to pick up a few in the last few months, but that was putting them on lay-a-way. I have a Springfield XD .45 on lay-a-way right now.

Yeah. Only thing I've bought in the past year was a Mosin-Nagant.

[Smokin Joe]

You lie = you die

That is the fastest way to piss off any Agent or Officer.

He should have kept his damn mouth shut and he probably would have been alright. Now his career is gone, pay check, pension, and most importantly he has jeopardized his freedom. We all have the right to remain silent but so many do not possess the ability.

[Utah Bob]

If you want to buy and sell guns as a "hobby" you need to go through an FFL holder or get a license yourself.
I've sold guns but not in the quantity this guy did. Listed guns 200 times on sites? He was asking for trouble and got it.
Dumbass.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

If you want to buy and sell guns as a "hobby" you need to go through an FFL holder or get a license yourself.
I've sold guns but not in the quantity this guy did. Listed guns 200 times on sites? He was asking for trouble and got it.
Dumbass.

Dumbass,Absolutely,can't understand why he thought he could get away with dealing in such volume..........

Big Teddy

[Leozinho]

Originally Posted by rdret1

http://www.ticklethewire.com/wp-cont...as-shipley.pdf

This is a copy of the indictment. The problem is not that he talked to police, the problem is he lied. According to the indictment, he sold over $118,000 worth of firearms. You are allowed to "occassionally" sell a firearm without an FFL, including from a personal collection. According to the indictment, he went way beyond that.

As everyone who has ever purchased a firearm knows, you have to fill out an ATF 4473 when you buy it stating you are the purchaser of the weapon and it does belong to you. Apparently, he falsified several of these, making actual straw purchases for third parties, with the full intent of purchasing the weapons and immediately transferring them to a third party.

He also got in trouble by conducting actual interstate transactions over the internet. You cannot do this without going through a FFL holder. This guy was a federal law enforcement agent. He knew the rules and thought he could use his position to circumvent them for a profit.

IMHO, this guy is not the victim of some "entrapment" ploy, he is someone who thought he could abuse his position as an FBI agent to supplement his retirement.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Jago

If you talk to the feds and your story changes or they don't like the story you provide, 18 USC 1001 is a real Bee Itch.

It's not a matter of not liking your story. He lied. End of story. They had him dead to rights anyway and he added a charge by lying. It's good that most criminals aren't as clever as they think they are. It leads them to talk. 18 USC 1001 is great.


(Of course, you defense attorneys don't see it that way, do you?)

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Leozinho

It's not a matter of not liking your story. He lied. End of story. They had him dead to rights anyway and he added a charge by lying. It's good that most criminals aren't as clever as they think they are. It leads them to talk. 18 USC 1001 is great.

(Of course, you defense attorneys don't see it that way, do you?)

I think that JAGO's rep with those who know him in the community is more than adequate to support his expression of a little sarcasm/irony here.

TR