America is slowly turning Communist

[olhamada]

Don't believe me? Read Marx/Engels "The Communist Manifesto". I just did. Scary.

The thing that prompted this was the recent passage of the new healthcare bill by our Congress.

Last night I also read through Lenin's "The State and Revolution". It is his interpretation of Marx and Engels' Manifesto. It is bone chilling to read through his section on the transition from a capitalistic democracy to a communistic society - and realize that much of what he says is happening right here, right now.

The class struggle of the proletariat (wage laborers) against the bourgeoisie (employers/owners) as a "normal" stage in societal development that leads from capitalism to class equalization through state mandated taxation and redistribution of wealth to eventual destruction of independently owned small business and even large corporations to governmentally controlled production and provision of services describes where we are headed by continuing on our current path.

This push to grow government to moderate and oversee the class struggle, the push to increase the government's hold on more and more of our lives, the push to increase and progressively tax businesses and individuals to bring this about, the push to equalize the classes by being "fair and balanced", etc... - is a slide away from capitalism towards Marxism/Leninism/Communism.

That said, we need to and must take care of the poor. We must make healthcare, shelter, clothing, and adequate nutrition available to all. We must focus on job creation and allow individual productivity. We must re-establish a national unity and cohesion. We must limit corruption (can't completely avoid it as long as you are dealing with humans) and the taking advantage of the less advantaged for the benefit of corporate America/Wall Street. But there are other ways to do it aside from government mandates, government growth, taxation, equalization, religious discrimination and complete separation of church and state. Pure unadulterated capitalism is heartless and unjust. But the other extreme is even worse. There is a balance.

Another thing - I am sick to death of the whole partisanship thing. It is not a party issue. The Dems are just as bad as the Repubs who are just as bad as the Dems. Their focus is on power, money, and control - and not the Republic.

It is not a partisanship thing. It is a struggle for upholding the original constitution of these United States while preventing the dissolutive course on which we currently find ourselves.

Marx, Engels, and Lenin believed true freedom comes from complete equality through government mandates and control. In fact, Lenin says communism is true democracy - where the people (workers) are heard and politicians (employers/owners) are not. What do you believe?

One of my friends called me out and said I felt this way because I am a doctor. My response was, "It's not the fact that I'm a doctor that makes me feel this way. It's the fact that I'm a patriot."

Thanks for letting me rant.

[Sigaba]

Originally Posted by olhamada

This push to grow government to moderate and oversee the class struggle, the push to increase the government's hold on more and more of our lives, the push to increase and progressively tax businesses and individuals to bring this about, the push to equalize the classes by being "fair and balanced", etc... - is a slide away from capitalism towards Marxism/Leninism/Communism.

IMO, your own analysis disproves your central thesis.

The current administration's efforts to propagate middle class (bourgeoisie) interests and values is more indicative of an attempt to subvert the working classes from their revolutionary mission.

Moreover, IMO you are neglecting the role violence plays in Marxist-Leninist ideology. To Marx, "class warfare" was not a rhetorical flourish but a necessary component of revolutionary change.

Finally, before someone argues that today's "progressive" is yesterday's socialist, and therefore a communist, I would point out that while communist ideology allows for temporary alliances of convenience with leftist political parties, it points out that such arrangements must ultimately serve the objectives of communism, and, that at all times.

The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.*

My $0.02.
__________________________________________________ ___________
* Source is here.

[Chris Cram]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

IMO, your own analysis disproves your central thesis.

The current administration's efforts to propagate middle class (bourgeoisie) interests and values is more indicative of an attempt to subvert the working classes from their revolutionary mission.

Moreover, IMO you are neglecting the role violence plays in Marxist-Leninist ideology. To Marx, "class warfare" was not a rhetorical flourish but a necessary component of revolutionary change.

Finally, before someone argues that today's "progressive" is yesterday's socialist, and therefore a communist, I would point out that while communist ideology allows for temporary alliances of convenience with leftist political parties, it points out that such arrangements must ultimately serve the objectives of communism, and, that at all times.

My $0.02.
__________________________________________________ ___________
* Source is here.

Are you suggesting that today’s Progressive is not yesterdays Progressive?

Perhaps it is clear to those who want the change that a revolution could only come in response to anarchy. But an evolution could be achieved via social change…

*Saul Alinsky; Rules for Radicals
*The Invisible Committee; The Coming Insurrection

[echoes]

Originally Posted by olhamada

Don't believe me? Read Marx/Engels "The Communist Manifesto". I just did. Scary.

The thing that prompted this was the recent passage of the new healthcare bill by our Congress.

Okay. Can I just ask a simple question before this hysteria that is being created, gets out of hand?

WTF are the American people who do NOT support this shit supposed to do? Give in? Bow down? Look for the "Beast" mark that is coming?

Am just asking because this thread was started obviously to provoke some kind of thought, right? Not to scare....?

Holly

[olhamada]

Yes, Holly - to provoke thought and to motivate action through fear and knowledge.

You know the analogy of the frog in boiling water, right? We're in the same kettle. People go along with small seemingly innocuous changes, and then before you know it, we're so far downstream before we start thinking, "How'd we ever get here"?

The scary thing is, people are arguing about rights (civil, to bear arms, free speech, healthcare, etc...) yet they are not watching what is happening. We are missing the forest for the trees. We are so distracted, that we are allowing the government to lead us down a road that we really don't want to go down without much objection.

They promise great and wondrous things, yet the methods being used are slowly taking away our liberty. Actually, we are giving it away. Once it's gone, it ain't coming back.

And it not just the Dems.....

[olhamada]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

Moreover, IMO you are neglecting the role violence plays in Marxist-Leninist ideology. To Marx, "class warfare" was not a rhetorical flourish but a necessary component of revolutionary change.

I fear it's coming.....just a matter of time.

[echoes]

Originally Posted by olhamada

Yes, Holly - to provoke thought and to motivate action through fear and knowledge.

I hear your analogies. Olhamada.

Provoking thought, "an action through Fear? " Hmmm. Guess folks should think about historical refferences at this point, and who our most famous motivators were, using fear as a tactic. In all honesty, all I know is that tactic is bad...but seemingly, with todays sheeple, there is no alternitive...

Holly-->Just wondering...Does anyone else see the end as a religous war between THE Christians and THE Muslims?

Holly

[Utah Bob]

Dammit! Commies in the wood pile again?
They're harder to get rid of than head lice. Where's my M1 and my Tailgunner Joe T-shirt?

[olhamada]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

Dammit! Commies in the wood pile again?
They're harder to get rid of than head lice. Where's my M1 and my Tailgunner Joe T-shirt?

HA!!

[echoes]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

Dammit! Commies in the wood pile again?
They're harder to get rid of than head lice. Where's my M1 and my Tailgunner Joe T-shirt?

Don't know where it ia Sir...But can I have one???? Pleeeeease?????? Will wear it proudly!!!

Holly

[Richard]

Anybody who thinks America today is anywhere close to or heading towards the social-political structures we once called 'Communism' has no inkiling of what that so-called 'communism' (actually Marxist-Socialism as they never came close to Marx's vision of communism) was.

BTDT.

Richard's $.02

[98G]

Originally Posted by Richard

Anybody who thinks America today is anywhere close to or heading towards the social--political structures we once called 'Communism' has no inkiling of what that so-called 'communism' (actually Marxist-Socialism as they never came close to Marx's vision of communism) was.

BTDT.

Ah Richard, there you go thinking again. Hard to drum up hysteria if you are going with logic.

Yes having read everything from the Bible, the Koran, Marx to Mein Kampf, you can find parallels in anything, but reading it while remembering the context of the times they were written and conditions, the parallels weaken considerable. I would not want to make decisions on healthcare or education today based upon what Marx wrote.

IMHO, Progressive has taken on a lot of meanings lately -- but I like to consider the ideas of a Roosevelt progressive (as in Teddy) a welcome respite from the standard fodder of what we now call our left and right.

[Buck]

Me thinks it's getting close, and I need to start looking for the Indian Chick, who'll move up in the mountains with me, and have a herd of children.

Buck

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

Dammit! Commies in the wood pile again?
They're harder to get rid of than head lice. Where's my M1 and my Tailgunner Joe T-shirt?

You told me to sell the T-shirt on Ebay. Just set fire to the woodpile.
Listen to 'em snap, crackle and pop in the evening bonfire.

AM

[steel71]

Originally Posted by olhamada

Don't believe me? Read Marx/Engels "The Communist Manifesto". I just did. Scary.

The thing that prompted this was the recent passage of the new healthcare bill by our Congress.

Last night I also read through Lenin's "The State and Revolution". It is his interpretation of Marx and Engels' Manifesto. It is bone chilling to read through his section on the transition from a capitalistic democracy to a communistic society - and realize that much of what he says is happening right here, right now.

The class struggle of the proletariat (wage laborers) against the bourgeoisie (employers/owners) as a "normal" stage in societal development that leads from capitalism to class equalization through state mandated taxation and redistribution of wealth to eventual destruction of independently owned small business and even large corporations to governmentally controlled production and provision of services describes where we are headed by continuing on our current path.

This push to grow government to moderate and oversee the class struggle, the push to increase the government's hold on more and more of our lives, the push to increase and progressively tax businesses and individuals to bring this about, the push to equalize the classes by being "fair and balanced", etc... - is a slide away from capitalism towards Marxism/Leninism/Communism.

That said, we need to and must take care of the poor. We must make healthcare, shelter, clothing, and adequate nutrition available to all. We must focus on job creation and allow individual productivity. We must re-establish a national unity and cohesion. We must limit corruption (can't completely avoid it as long as you are dealing with humans) and the taking advantage of the less advantaged for the benefit of corporate America/Wall Street. But there are other ways to do it aside from government mandates, government growth, taxation, equalization, religious discrimination and complete separation of church and state. Pure unadulterated capitalism is heartless and unjust. But the other extreme is even worse. There is a balance.

Another thing - I am sick to death of the whole partisanship thing. It is not a party issue. The Dems are just as bad as the Repubs who are just as bad as the Dems. Their focus is on power, money, and control - and not the Republic.

It is not a partisanship thing. It is a struggle for upholding the original constitution of these United States while preventing the dissolutive course on which we currently find ourselves.

Marx, Engels, and Lenin believed true freedom comes from complete equality through government mandates and control. In fact, Lenin says communism is true democracy - where the people (workers) are heard and politicians (employers/owners) are not. What do you believe?

One of my friends called me out and said I felt this way because I am a doctor. My response was, "It's not the fact that I'm a doctor that makes me feel this way. It's the fact that I'm a patriot."


We've all been (at least those who lived through the cold war) conditioned to call government control, Communism. It really doesn't matter what term someone wants to call it, never mind the time wasted debating what's Marxism, Communism, and Fascism. It's all collectivism, and anti-American.

Thanks for letting me rant.

We've all been (at least those who lived through the cold war) conditioned to call government control, Communism. It really doesn't matter what term someone wants to call it, never mind the time wasted debating what's Marxism, Communism, and Fascism. It's all collectivism, and anti-American. The fact is, every time this country is at war and economically unstable, we lose a little more of our freedom and the government gains more power. From FDR's new deal, LBJ's great society, and now the total takeover of health care. You said, It's a slow take over". Yes, it's called Fabian Socialism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Society