New VW Jetta TDI Turbo Diesel..

[JJ_BPK]

I have been asked about a comment I made in another thread. I decided to start a new thread in Technology as I think it is appropriate.

We just purchased a 2010 VW Jetta TDI. It is advertised to get 30-43 MPG. It uses the only engine in America that will be sold in Kaliforicate with out alteration. I think means something to Al Gore.. The engine is a 2.0 L Turbo Diesel, 140 horsepower and 236 lb.-ft. of torque.


1st The disclaimer(s)

1)I have had 13 Toyota's in the last 36 years and I still drive a Tundra.

2)I also buy American when & where practical

3)This VW Jetta purchase was for one reason. MILEAGE I am not green anything, but we do drive up to DC to see g-kids in DC and vacation. It only makes sense to get something with good mileage.

4)We traded in a 2002 Lexus RX-300 with 93,450, still getting 23.3 mpg. The RX300 has a computer and until the battery died last month, it was recording the mileage for the last 8 yrs, contiguous. Oil, one(1) battery, & one(1) set of tires. Our last vehicle was a Toyota 4runner, it lasted 147K miles. I do not like to buy frequently.

The Vehicle comparison:

Factory installed options

1. 17 inch wheels&tires

The rest was standard. Here are the feature differences.

Lexus RX 300

• memory seat settings
• auto dimming rear mirror
• thermostat controlled AC

VW Jetta TDI

• heated seats
• dash computer has 10x the settings
• more hidden storage under back trunk carpet
• Sirius radio
• blue teeth Hands-Free Phone Call Receiving System
• radio & phone & computer controls on the steering wheel
• 110v outlet?? I have no idea why..

There is the Lexus level of detail. The RX300 had the wood trim of a Lexus. The VW has leather but no wood.

The best part the dealer sold at cost + 300 USD (USAA deal), out the door for just at 27K.

In today's era of Land Yatchets, where step ladders are used to mount and prices tags sized to match, I think we got a good deal..


The Mileage:

The VW site say 30-42 MPG. I'm sure it's based on what the lawyers & EPA say they can support..

BUT,, We live on a flat rock,, The only time we have any inclines to negotiate, are the approaches to some of the hi-bridges or drunk Tourista's in the road..

I use the cruise control all the time, even in our neighborhood, Most of it is either 25 or 30 MPH. The TDI loves it, running around 1300 rpm it will do 58-62 mpg. It's amazing.

Out on US #1, the Keys are zoned 45mph with a few areas set to 55mph. So far at 45mph or 1800 rpm she does around 45-50 mpg, again with the CC on, no air.

I can't wait to drive up to our g-kids in DC to see what we get on I-95 for 1300 miles and 19 hrs at 70+..

If you live in a metropolitan area or rural area with winding roads, you're not going to get top performance. Your foot is the largest impedance to maximum gas mileage.

This is not an advertisement. The VW TDI may fall apart next week. I don't think so as I have talked to past and present VW owners. VW is making a
new generation of Beatles.

This is a technology story from a FOG that wants good gas mileage.

So far, I think I found it.

I don't have to use any solar batteries, wind-up springs, Micky D's french-fry oil, POO Gas or AL Gore Reconstituted Snake Oil in the tank..

Is this car for everyone, I don't think so, I'm not sure you can tow a can of beans. The seating is great but not luxurious. Storage is a tad less the the RX300. Fine for a family of four going on vacation, but it is not an Excursion or Suburban.

End of my after action report, Questions will be answered by my XO as he distributes the 387 page PowerPoint presentation with glossy foils...

[Defender968]

Great review, thanks, in about 8 months I think I'm going to be in the market for a new vehicle for the wife, I think the VW Jetta is now firmly in the running.

Thanks again.

[x SF med]

JJ-
I drive a 2002 VW Golf GLS TDI - bought it new, it's the ALH engine not the PD/common rail. My 4 dr, Automatic, 90hp 165 ft-lb mini wagon averages 44 mpg in some of the worst traffic in the country (even after I left NY/NJ). Maintenance is a breeze - I use a Pela 6000 oil extractor (every 10K after your first 2 5k oil changes) so it's all top side, even the oil filter and you can fully clean the old oil out of the filter housing.

Even my 'old style' engine can accelreate uphill when going 90mph, yes this has been tested personally... You're going to be amazed how well the engine works once it's broken in... it gets better... I've not had any major problems other than wit hthe friggin idiots at the stealership not knowing how to work on the engine.... apparently, it's too simple for them, since the basic design of the diesel engine hasn't changed in about 100 years.

Welcome to the dark side, brother.

[zeke]

x SF med,
How many miles do you have on the car? The reason I ask is that I've heard of issues with the newer VW diesels around 100k with the engine or oil pump from an acquaintance who works on VWs (mostly older ones). I thought it sounded strange since most diesel pickup trucks go up to 300k or so without major engine problems (from my limited understanding).

Have you had any electrical issues? I had a couple 1980s VWs that always seemed to have electrical issues and I notice a few newer ones with burned out taillights or headlights. Maybe I just pay more attention to the VWs since I like the fact that they are one of the only family cars you can buy with a diesel here in the US and I hope to someday get one.

Not to mention the possibility of running off vegetable oil in a pinch.

[ZonieDiver]

For a time, I was a member for the Green Party, USA... yeah, I know... but one of the members converted vehicles to "bio-diesel". However, he drove, and encouraged others, to drive a VW turbo-diesel, and reported the same kind of mileage out here in AZ. Just sayin'...

[NoRoadtrippin]

Thanks for the review. I drive a '98 Subaru Impreza Outback with 208k on it, and I love it, but the gas is terrible. Like sub 20 mpg on a 4-cylinder. A TDI is one of the vehicles I have really been considering in the next year or two when this one wears out. This is some great info!

I test drove a TDI Jetta last year and loved it. We ended up buying a Turbo Passat for a little more room (Wife's choice - I preferred the Jetta TDI).

We looked at Honda Accords, Lexus IS, Malibus, Maximas, BMWs and probably some I forgot. The VWs won out on everything we were looking for hands down: comfort, bells & whistles, headroom/legroom, trunk space, economy, power

We've had the car about 18 months now and would buy another one today if we had to. We will definitely look at VWs first next time the wife is due for a new car.

By the way, that little tiny engine can crank out some HP. It's surprisingly quick , rides like a Benz, handles like a sports car and gets 30 mpg.

[x SF med]

Originally Posted by zeke

x SF med,
How many miles do you have on the car? The reason I ask is that I've heard of issues with the newer VW diesels around 100k with the engine or oil pump from an acquaintance who works on VWs (mostly older ones). I thought it sounded strange since most diesel pickup trucks go up to 300k or so without major engine problems (from my limited understanding).

Have you had any electrical issues? I had a couple 1980s VWs that always seemed to have electrical issues and I notice a few newer ones with burned out taillights or headlights. Maybe I just pay more attention to the VWs since I like the fact that they are one of the only family cars you can buy with a diesel here in the US and I hope to someday get one.

Not to mention the possibility of running off vegetable oil in a pinch.

Zeke -
I have about 98K on the car. Luckily I moved about 3 ours away from a great TDI mechanic, a friend who moved to the PNW from NJ... not wholly planned, but fortuitous for me. I am a bit anal about maintenance, my Timing belt/water pump/tensioners were repaced at just below 80K, oil changes are done on schedule with recommended oil (I have to use an oil that's rated VW/Audi/Posrsche/MB spec 505.00, and CH/CI/CJ rated, and fully synthetic 5W40) change the oil filter every oil change (shedule is 5K, 5K, 7.5K, every 10k after that) plus as noted, I use a Pela 6000 to do topside oill changes through the dip stick tube. I had one issue with a burned out glow plug in NJ that I brougght in to the Stealership for warranty work... the guy they put on it never worked on a TDI before so .... I was without my car for 48 days while they replaced a headd they damaged, replaced my fuel injector pump they damaged, and replaced a piston that they damaged... oh, and thye tried to say I had stripped/cross threaded the glow plug prior to bringing it in - I never touched it.

The electrical problems were addressed by VW - I never had any - well, one small one, but it was a draw issue by the Monsoon stereo, easy fix, reseat the fuse, and a small rewire for the stereo.

Headlights and taillights - I've replaced a few bulbs - always check the fuses, occasionally they aren't seated properly from the factory, headlight bulbs are an easy replace - DRLs tend to burn them out in 5-6 years.

And - MB has had the D and TD series out for al ong time, The Dodge Sprinter comes in the MB 5 cyl 2.5L CRD Turbo, and Audi (overpriced VW) is in the market with the Bluetec TDI (the new PD Common rail engine).

One of the reasons I bought the Golf GLS TDI was the fact that it is essentially an Audi A-4 (steering, frame, suspension) with a better engine and a different can - and... in Oct 02 when I bought it, NY was getting ready to go CARB and it would have been a year old, and unsaleable in NY in 3 months... so they cut me a deal, a great deal. Funny story - when it was 5 years old, in NJ, the idiot at the Emissions place inadertently wanded it and ran a gas emissions test - he walked over at the end and said - "your rpms are a little low, you CO is just inside the ULEV standards, but everything else is well within ULEV." To which I replied, "Nice to know, by the way, it's a 5 year old diesel, could you run the correct tests?" His response (excluding the blank, disbelieving look), "That's a diesel?" Me- "Check the VIN, and look at your sheet." He then ran the opacity test required and it was at 3%, well under the opacity fail mark of 11%."

Anybody who is buying a TDI should look at the TDI Club forums -just google "TDI club" - think of it as a PS for TDI owners. If you can think of a reason to buy, or not buy a TDI it's there - plus maintnance tips, fixes, recommended mechanic lists by state and fix-em link ups... a great resource.

[craigepo]

Questions regarding the VW diesel:
1) Enough power to pass/run 75 in a 75mph zone?
2) Airbags/safety features/crumple zones?

A lot of the local guys drive diesel pickups hauling/pulling. Those monsters get close to 20 mpg, have tons of torquie, and last 300,000 miles. Added positive(negative): everytime you smell the diesel fumes, it reminds you of loading onto a deuce-and-a-half.

[tonyz]

We drove a 2000 VW Golf TDI for 98K miles before trading for another VW last summer. The engine remained very strong, the plastic and rubber was going bad after 10 years - outdoors in the hot sunshine of Florida.

The mileage was consistently in the upper 40's and occasionally in the low 50's per gallon - depending on driving conditions and if babied.

We added a Thule roof rack and replaced the plastic belly pan with a steel version after replacing the plastic pans a number of times. The particular VW Golf rode a bit low and my wife, we learned, will zero in on a any road debris without fail. The steel pan proved to be a good investment. The Jetta may be different.

The web site at the address below may be helpful to VW TDI owners:

http://www.tdiclub.com/

[x SF med]

Originally Posted by rltipton

I test drove a TDI Jetta last year and loved it. We ended up buying a Turbo Passat for a little more room (Wife's choice - I preferred the Jetta TDI).

We looked at Honda Accords, Lexus IS, Malibus, Maximas, BMWs and probably some I forgot. The VWs won out on everything we were looking for hands down: comfort, bells & whistles, headroom/legroom, trunk space, economy, power

We've had the car about 18 months now and would buy another one today if we had to. We will definitely look at VWs first next time the wife is due for a new car.

By the way, that little tiny engine can crank out some HP. It's surprisingly quick , rides like a Benz, handles like a sports car and gets 30 mpg.

It does not crank out HP... you buy HP but drive torque... the TDI HP/Torque ratio usually runs 1:2 where a gas engine will be 2:1 - gas engines turn more times to generate the same 'power' as a diesel... so, HP= extended acceleration where Torque=extended power to the ground. plus the thermal efficiency of the diesel engine wastes less energy as heat so it can go to torque.

Stepping off soapbox....

Oh, one other note to all 'drivers' out there - you can increase mileage and handling by not following the tire manufacturers recommendation of 32 psi ... find the max sidewall pressure (usually ~ 44-50 psi for passenger cars using a 15"/16"/17" A-A-H, or A-B-T style 195-220 65-95 tire) and reduce that by 10-12% and fill to that pressure - easy for me to remember is 40psi for my tires with a 44 max - the sidewalls stiffen (no squeal better handling), the treads flatten on the pavement (more even wear, better traction) and your mileage goes up.

[tonyz]

I should add that their are many opinions on the matter - but I used a diesel fuel additive (PowerService, is the brand if I recall) available at Walmart and most auto parts stores. This product boosted cetane (like a diesel version of an octane rating, I believe ) and I also believe it contributed to enhancing engine life and produced slightly higher mileage. YMMV.

When driving in cold weather up north I used the anti-gel version - allegedly keeps the diesel fuel from gelling in cold winter weather (NH, VT, MA).

When you read the various diesel forums you can make up your own mind about using a diesel fuel additive.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by craigepo

Questions regarding the VW diesel:
1) Enough power to pass/run 75 in a 75mph zone?
2) Airbags/safety features/crumple zones?

everytime you smell the diesel fumes.

When we drove home thru Miami, on the TP-ext, doing 75+ mph,, I was able to keep up with the locals and did not feel compromised..

The Turbo is actual something you need to learn. There is a slight pause as it spins up. You need to learn to give yourself a 1/2 sec or so. Also you need to learn the power kick. When the turbo kicks it is a neck snapper.

There is a demo vid of a VW engineer putting a coffee filter on the exhaust tail pipe. After running the car for a while, he uses the filter in a coffee pot.. The jest is the filter is Sooooo clear, you can drink thru it..

The list of standard options is long

• Media center, console lcd display, sirus/stero/cd/Iplayer, w10 speakers ??
• air-conditioning
• airbags, front side & back seat - standard
• full size spare
• roof rack
• H rated tires (130+ MPH)??
• back seat air/heat on lower console
• compass in inst panel
• speed, mpg, gas remaining, distance on trip, time on trip
• 110v outlet
• Igagget Apple usb jack that integrated in "media" system
• floor mats
• electric, locks(three keys), doors, outside mirrors, trunk
• turn sig lights on outside mirrors
• 10K between oil changer(new 2010)
• NO dealer visit schedule for 1st 10,000 miles
• heated seats(very hot)
• split fold-down rear seat, arm rest in center
• child seat anchors
• sliding cover gizzmo thingy, to cover rear area (SportsWagen)
• rear window wiper
• radio, computer, phone controls on steering wheel
• lighted mirrors on sun-sades
• over-head console, with lights, media, glasses storage
• front center console with cup-holders and med-small storage hole
• tools and wheel lock key in storage tray, with spare tire
• three(3) different storage lockers in back, under floor

Options(as I understand them, the VW site is a bit vague)

• airbags, back sides - optional, I was advised that this style airbag MIGHT cause personal injury to anyone laying or sleeping horizontally in the back seat??
• 17 inch rims & tires
• assorted roof rack options(bikes, babies,beer kegs(Germany only), kayaks
• assorted flaps and cowlings
• sun roof

There might be more, I have not put the car on a lift yet, but hope to find some Summer Sausage in the wheel wells...

[Dan]

JJ_BPK, Did you happen to do the DVD Navigation System in it? If so do you have any comments on it? Just curious because it's about a $1700 charge.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by Dan

JJ_BPK, Did you happen to do the DVD Navigation System in it? If so do you have any comments on it? Just curious because it's about a $1700 charge.

I knew I'd forget something,, Yes, the GPS nav is an option & No we did not get it.

My feelings are my Tom-Tom can be updated 20 times before I would come close to buying an in-dash system. For that matter, I could throw the Tom-Tom away annually and buy new cheaper..

We are currently on rather fixed vacation routes,, here to DC and back. I use Tom-Tom to forecast millage, DIESEL usage, and time on target. We have but one(1) route, I95, with two(2) stops for potty & fuel. If we ever get to the point that we do we travel America. I will still rely on the Tom-Tom..