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Old 03-01-2010, 08:58   #1
koz
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Buzz and Bullets: Gun Fans Cheer Starbucks

I guess I'll have to go buy that $4 mocha frappe latte chino

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews


Dale Welch recently walked into a Starbucks in Virginia, handgun strapped to his waist, and ordered a banana Frappuccino with a cinnamon bun. He says the firearm drew a double-take from at least one customer, but not a peep from the baristas.

Welch's foray into the coffeehouse was part of an effort by some gun owners to exercise and advertise their rights in states that allow people to openly carry firearms.

Even in some "open carry" states, businesses are allowed to ban guns in their stores. And some have, creating political confrontations with gun owners. But Starbucks, the largest chain targeted, has refused to take the bait, saying in a statement this month that it follows state and local laws and has its own safety measures in its stores.

"Starbucks is a special target because it's from the hippie West Coast, and a lot of dedicated consumers who pay $4 for coffee have expectations that Starbucks would ban guns. And here they aren't," said John Bruce, a political science professor at the University of Mississippi who is an expert in gun policy.

Welch, a 71-year-old retired property manager who lives in Richmond, Va., doesn't see any reason why he shouldn't bear arms while he gets caffeinated.

"I don't know of anybody who would provide me with defense other than myself, so I routinely as a way of life carry a weapon — and that extends to my coffee shops," he said.

The fight for retailers heated up in early January when gun enthusiasts in northern California began walking into Starbucks and other businesses to test state laws that allow gun owners to carry weapons openly in public places. As it spread to other states, gun control groups quickly complained about the parade of firearms in local stores.

Some were spontaneous, with just one or two gun owners walking into a store. Others were organized parades of dozens of gun owners walking into restaurants with their firearms proudly at their sides.

In one case, about 100 activists bearing arms had planned to go to a California Pizza Kitchen in Walnut Creek, Calif., but after it became clear they weren't welcome they went to another restaurant. That chain and Peet's Coffee & Tea are among the businesses that have banned customers with guns.

Just as shops can deny service to barefoot customers, restaurants and stores in some states can declare their premises gun-free zones.

The advocacy group OpenCarry.org, a leading group encouraging the demonstrations, applauded Starbucks in a statement for "deciding not to discriminate against lawful gun carriers."

"Starbucks is seen as a responsible corporation and they're seen as a very progressive corporation, and this policy is very much in keeping with that," said John Pierce, co-founder of OpenCarry.org. "If you're going to support individual rights, you have to support them all. I applaud them, and I've gone out of my way personally to let every manager of every Starbucks I pass know that."

The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence has responded by circulating a petition that soon attracted 26,000 signatures demanding that Starbucks "offer espresso shots, not gunshots" and declare its coffeehouses "gun-free zones."

Gun control advocates hope the coffeehouse firearms displays end up aggravating more people than they inspire.

"If you want to dress up and go out and make a little political theater by frightening children in the local Starbucks, if that's what you want to spend your energy on, go right ahead," said Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady campaign. "But going out and wearing a gun on your belt to show the world you're allowed to is a little juvenile."

The coffeehouse debate has been particularly poignant for gun-control advocates in Washington state, where four uniformed police officers were shot and killed while working on their laptops at a suburban coffeehouse. The shooter later died in a gun battle with police.

Ralph Fascitelli of Washington Ceasefire, an advocacy group that seeks to reduce gun violence, said allowing guns in coffeehouses robs residents of "societal sanctuaries."

"People go to Starbucks for an escape, just so they can get peace," Fascitelli said. "But people walk in with open-carry guns and it destroys the tranquility."

Gun control advocates have been on the defensive. Their opponents have trumpeted fears that gun rights would erode under a Democrat-led White House and Congress, but President Barack Obama and his top allies have largely been silent on issues such as reviving an assault weapons ban or strengthening background checks at gun shows.

Gun rights groups are looking to build on a 2008 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that struck down Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban, and cheered legislation that took effect Monday allowing licensed gun owners to bring firearms into national parks. Obama signed that legislation as part of a broader bill.

Legislators in Montana and Tennessee, meanwhile, have passed measures seeking to exempt guns made and kept in-state from national gun control laws. And state lawmakers elsewhere are considering legislation that would give residents more leeway to carry concealed weapons without permits.

Observers say the gun rights movement is using the Starbucks campaign to add momentum and energize its supporters.

"They're trying to change the culture with this broader notion of gun rights," said Clyde Wilcox, a Georgetown University government professor who has written a book on the politics of gun control. "I think they are pressing the notion that they've got a rout going, so why not just get what they can while they're ahead?"
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:03   #2
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I see open carry being exercised daily here in Starbucks - they offer free coffee to on-duty police officers so there are always policemen stopping by - good for the image and for the protection of the employees.

7-Eleven offers the same thing and there are always LEOs stopping in there, too.

Smart business practices IMO.

Richard's $.02
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:41   #3
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Be nice if Walmart was the same instead of prohibiting personal firearms, and their idiotic policy of having one of their employees carry the firearm you just bought from them to the door.
At least they could carry it to your car.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:48   #4
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This has been in the news for a while but just hitting the MSM...

wonder if they'll modify their logo...

coffegunstgt.JPG
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:45   #5
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Go to their website and drop them a supportive email about this issue. I did and got a positive response.
I do the same for outfits that deny gun carry, also in a positive tone but mention denying my business.
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Old 03-02-2010, 16:06   #6
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Most of the people that hang out at our local coffee shop (Frankie's) carry guns and damn near everyone in the shop knows it. We all carry concealed however, but there are NRA and other gun rags sitting on the table right next to the kayak and Conde Nast rags. We are a diverse bunch. Funny thing is that when the shop is closed (holidays) we all go to Starbucks....
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Old 03-02-2010, 17:50   #7
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Frankies? Interesting. Have not been there in a while.

I like the Coffee Bean Plantation. I don't hang around in there though and I have never seen anyone openly carrying. Not a fan of Starbucks coffee, although my daughter always wants a hot chocolate from there.

Good for Starbucks not making a big deal about open or concealed carry.
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Old 03-02-2010, 18:04   #8
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Originally Posted by ApacheIP View Post
Good for Starbucks not making a big deal about open or concealed carry.
I suspect that they will, as soon as the word gets up to corporate that this is happening.

Looking at Starbucks corporate leadership and philosophy, I would not read too much into this yet.

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Old 03-02-2010, 21:01   #9
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Old 03-03-2010, 04:43   #10
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Too many people seem to fail to realize that guns, in the hands of law abiding citizens, save lives. Granted stating that here is preaching to the choir, I know. Too bad we can't seem to get it across to the normal public that a person who carries a firearm, and does it safely mind you, is a good thing.

But then again common sense isn't common, nor is it standard issue. I know, I keep checking my hand receipt every time I go to CIF and it still isn't on there. Then again if it was, I'd have to give it up when I get out.
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Old 03-03-2010, 05:22   #11
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Originally Posted by Utah Bob View Post
Be nice if Walmart was the same instead of prohibiting personal firearms, and their idiotic policy of having one of their employees carry the firearm you just bought from them to the door.
At least they could carry it to your car.
That doesn't seem to be the policy with the Walmart on Raeford road. On three seperate occasions over the past couple of years I have seen customers open carrying in the store. I never bothered to fact check the policy, but it was clear that the store emplyee's were not concerned. I am not aware of any policy there that prohibits CCW's either.
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Old 03-03-2010, 06:12   #12
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The Wal-Mart on Raeford Road and the Wal-Mart 5 km from Columbine High School are two TOTALLY different Wal-Marts!!! Unfortunately, I have seen more Wal-Mart' like Utah Bob that are not "gun friendly"

Thanks for the intel on Starbucks - they will get my business again!

molon labe
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Old 03-03-2010, 19:11   #13
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A long time WalMart supervisor told me the no guns policy was corporate but not enforced by all store managers.
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