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Old 01-19-2010, 20:48   #1
Sdiver
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Trijicon puts Bible passages on it's sites

Don't know how well this is going to play out.

Wonder what you Gents, who use these sites, think of this?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...bible_passages

Quote:
Michigan defense contractor has God in its sights


WASHINGTON – Army officials said Tuesday they will investigate whether a Michigan defense contractor violated federal procurement rules by stamping references to Bible verses on combat rifle sights used by American forces to kill enemy fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Marine Corps, another major customer of the telescoping sights that allow troops to pinpoint targets day or night, says service acquisition officials plan to meet with the contractor, Trijicon of Wixom, Mich., to discuss future purchases of the company's gear.

The references have stoked concerns by a watch dog group about whether the inscriptions break a government rule that bars proselytizing by American troops. But military officials said the citations don't violate the ban and they won't stop using the tens of thousands of telescoping sights that have already been bought.

Trijicon said it has been longstanding company practice to put the Scripture citations on the equipment. Tom Munson, Trijicon's director of sales and marketing, said the company has never received any complaints until now.

"We don't publicize this," Munson said in a recent interview. "It's not something we make a big deal out of. But when asked, we say, 'Yes, it's there.'"

The inscriptions are subtle and appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number. Trijicon's rifle sights use tritium, a radioactive form of hydrogen, to create light and help shooters hit what they're aiming for.

Markings on the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight, which is standard issue to U.S. special operations forces, include "JN8:12," a reference to John 8:12: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, 'I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life,'" according to the King James version of the Bible.

The Trijicon Reflex sight is stamped with 2COR4:6, a reference to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ," the King James version reads.

Photos posted on a Defense Department Web site show Iraqi forces training with rifles equipped with the inscribed sights.

The Defense Department is a major customer of Trijicon's. In 2009 alone, the Marine Corps signed deals worth $66 million for the company's products. Trijicon's scopes and optical devices for guns range in cost from a few hundred dollars to $13,000, according to the company's Web site.

Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, says the Trijicon sights could give the Taliban and other enemy forces a propaganda tool: that American troops are Christian crusaders invading Muslim countries.

"I don't have to wonder for a nanosecond how the American public would react if citations from the Quran were being inscribed onto these U.S. armed forces gun sights instead of New Testament citations," Weinstein said. The foundation is a nonprofit organization opposed to religious favoritism within the military.

Weinstein said he has received complaints about the Scripture citations from active-duty and retired members of the military. He said he couldn't identify them because they fear retaliation.

A spokesman for U.S. Central Command, which manages military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, said the sights don't violate the ban on proselytizing because there's no effort to distribute the equipment beyond the U.S. troops who use them.

"This situation is not unlike the situation with U.S. currency," said the spokesman, Air Force Maj. John Redfield. "Are we going to stop using money because the bills have 'In God We Trust' on them? As long as the sights meet the combat needs of troops, they'll continue to be used."

Capt. Geraldine Carey, a Marine Corps spokeswoman, said Tuesday in an e-mailed statement that "we are aware of the issue and are concerned with how this may be perceived." Carey said Marine Corps acquisition officials plan to meet with Trijicon to discuss future buys of the company's sights. The statement did not say what the nature of those discussions would be.

Gary Tallman, an Army spokesman, said the service was not aware of the markings. But Army acquisition experts will determine if Trijicon violated any procurement regulations, he said.

Munson, Trijicon's sales director, said the practice of putting Bible references on the sites began nearly 30 years ago by Trijicon's founder, Glyn Bindon, who was killed in a plane crash in 2003. His son Stephen, Trijicon's president, has continued the practice.
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Old 01-19-2010, 20:50   #2
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MSNBC has a nice poll on the matter....lots of interesting comments
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Old 01-19-2010, 21:37   #3
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I will be happy to continue to buy products from Trijicon.. in fact I just made my way to there site to see if i happen to need anything right now. They have my full support and appreciation.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:16   #4
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I saw this on another forum and couldn't help but smile.

"I hear each scope is equipped with “cross” hairs, too. Will these Christianists never stop?"
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Old 01-20-2010, 17:32   #5
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I was on another forum and people got so crazy discussing it the moderators had to pull the thread.
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Old 01-20-2010, 19:44   #6
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My first, second, and third impulse is to say "so what"?

The scripture quotes have been on those sights since day one.
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:23   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah Bob View Post
I was on another forum and people got so crazy discussing it the moderators had to pull the thread.
Like the front page of "The Onion" this week:

Quote:
"Gay Teen Worried He Might Be Christian"

......But lately, a growing worry has begun to plague this young gay man. A gnawing feeling that, deep down, he may be a fundamentalist, right-wing Christian.
Boy I would hate to own an item produced by someone who holds true to what the Scriptures say...it might be purposefully built, perform well and be reasonably priced.
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:09   #8
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Here's the best reason to keep the sights the way they are:

Muslims Angry Over U.S. Military 'Jesus' Rifles

Muslim groups reacted angrily Wednesday after it emerged that the U.S. military is using combat rifle sights inscribed with coded Biblical references.

Army officials have said they will investigate whether a Michigan defense contractor violated federal procurement rules by stamping references to Bible verses on the gun sights used by American forces to kill enemy fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations on Wednesday said the continued use of the sights with the religious references would send a negative message to the Muslim world.

"The use of military equipment with hidden Bible references sends the false message to Muslims worldwide that we are at war with Islam," said CAIR Legal Counsel Nadhira Al-Khalili. "In addition, these sights are a potential recruiting tool for anti-American forces, endanger our troops and alienate our Muslim allies. They should we withdrawn as soon as logistically possible."

The Marine Corps, another major customer of the telescoping sights that allow troops to pinpoint targets day or night, says service acquisition officials plan to meet with Trijicon to discuss future purchases of the company's gear.

"If determined to be true, this is clearly inappropriate and we are looking into possible remedies," Commander Darryn James, a Pentagon spokesman, told AFP.

The references have stoked concerns by a watch dog group about whether the inscriptions break a government rule that bars proselytizing by American troops. But military officials said the citations don't violate the ban and they won't stop using the tens of thousands of telescoping sights that have already been bought.

The codes were used as "part of our faith and our belief in service to our country," Trijicon said.

"As long as we have men and women in danger, we will continue to do everything we can to provide them with both state-of-the-art technology and the never-ending support and prayers of a grateful nation," a company spokesman said on condition of anonymity.

Trijicon said it has been longstanding company practice to put the Scripture citations on the equipment. Tom Munson, Trijicon's director of sales and marketing, said the company has never received any complaints until now.

"We don't publicize this," Munson said in a recent interview. "It's not something we make a big deal out of. But when asked, we say, 'Yes, it's there.'"

The inscriptions are subtle and appear in raised lettering at the end of the stock number. Trijicon's rifle sights use tritium, a radioactive form of hydrogen, to create light and help shooters hit what they're aiming for.

Markings on the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight, which is standard issue to U.S. special operations forces, include "JN8:12," a reference to John 8:12: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, 'I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life,'" according to the King James version of the Bible.

The Trijicon Reflex sight is stamped with 2COR4:6, a reference to part of the second letter of Paul to the Corinthians: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ," the King James version reads.

Photos posted on a Defense Department Web site show Iraqi forces training with rifles equipped with the inscribed sights.

The Defense Department is a major customer of Trijicon's. In 2009 alone, the Marine Corps signed deals worth $66 million for the company's products. Trijicon's scopes and optical devices for guns range in cost from a few hundred dollars to $13,000, according to the company's Web site.

Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, says the Trijicon sights could give the Taliban and other enemy forces a propaganda tool: that American troops are Christian crusaders invading Muslim countries.

"I don't have to wonder for a nanosecond how the American public would react if citations from the Quran were being inscribed onto these U.S. armed forces gun sights instead of New Testament citations," Weinstein said. The foundation is a nonprofit organization opposed to religious favoritism within the military.

Weinstein said he has received complaints about the Scripture citations from active-duty and retired members of the military. He said he couldn't identify them because they fear retaliation.

A spokesman for U.S. Central Command, which manages military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, said the sights don't violate the ban on proselytizing because there's no effort to distribute the equipment beyond the U.S. troops who use them.

"This situation is not unlike the situation with U.S. currency," said the spokesman, Air Force Maj. John Redfield. "Are we going to stop using money because the bills have 'In God We Trust' on them? As long as the sights meet the combat needs of troops, they'll continue to be used."

Capt. Geraldine Carey, a Marine Corps spokeswoman, said Tuesday in an e-mailed statement that "we are aware of the issue and are concerned with how this may be perceived." Carey said Marine Corps acquisition officials plan to meet with Trijicon to discuss future buys of the company's sights. The statement did not say what the nature of those discussions would be.

Gary Tallman, an Army spokesman, said the service was not aware of the markings. But Army acquisition experts will determine if Trijicon violated any procurement regulations, he said.

Munson, Trijicon's sales director, said the practice of putting Bible references on the sites began nearly 30 years ago by Trijicon's founder, Glyn Bindon, who was killed in a plane crash in 2003. His son Stephen, Trijicon's president, has continued the practice.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.




http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:42   #9
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Leave it to CAIR to have something to say about this! I am so pissed, how you be a good American and a member/supporter of CAIR? YOU CAN'T! Why would an organization that is housed in AMERICA vie on the side of Muslims who have a problem with what our optics have on them? I have read about this on many forums, and I think that if you are in America, and not in our Armed Forces, or a supporter of our armed forces, then shut the fuck up or GTFO.

We protect the rights of CAIR, and I personally do so gladly, but when you raise concerns about the equipment used to keep your ass safe, then in my book, you are the enemy.

This Country was founded on the principals of Christianity, and as long as I am alive, I will attempt to live by those principals. May Trijicon continue to serve us and our enemies with the due respect deserved by both.
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Old 01-21-2010, 08:56   #10
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Perhaps US ammo manufactures will catch on to this idea and start putting scripture engravings on the bullets they send to Iraq and Afghanistan. That way when an insurgent gets shot it will hurt just a little bit more knowing he has a little piece of the Bible inside him. Heck on a 50 cal round you might be able to get a whole verse engraved on there.
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:11   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Sergeant View Post
The codes were used as "part of our faith and our belief in service to our country," Trijicon said.

"As long as we have men and women in danger, we will continue to do everything we can to provide them with both state-of-the-art technology and the never-ending support and prayers of a grateful nation," a company spokesman said on condition of anonymity.[/url]
every Army graduation I've been to has included prayer, will that be next?
our country has a Christian founding and tradition.... I personally love the God of the Bible, I wish the chaplains would end their prayer in Jesus Name.
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Old 01-21-2010, 10:46   #12
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Well, if it pisses off CAIR, then I need to grab a couple of ACOGS for good measure.

There'd be value in that even if I was an atheist.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:25   #13
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Originally Posted by longrange1947 View Post
My first, second, and third impulse is to say "so what"?

The scripture quotes have been on those sights since day one.
I have to agree... "so what?"

When you say the scripture quotes have been on since day one... is that day one of the company, even before the wars in the Middle East? Or is that after the war in Afghanistan and Iraq?

If the scripture quotes have been on there since day one even before the current wars, then I do not see any possibilty of making the claim that this is a Christian-Islam war. I think if you wanted to, anyone can find some sort of ridiculous connection trying to create the idea that this is a holy war against Islam.
 
Old 01-21-2010, 11:32   #14
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I wish the chaplains would end their prayer in Jesus Name.
Kinda awkward for the Jewish guys though.
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Old 01-21-2010, 11:41   #15
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In keeping with the new "Green" initiatives, maybe we should go back to using pig fat as bullet lube .....
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