"Specialist, if you think stop loss was bad"

[JAGO]

You would think by now, Hall would have known better. Love the way Klimaski is trying to raise enough money so SPC Hall can hire him.
v/r
phil

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?s...&article=67068


Thursday, January 7, 2010



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Army specialist jailed for threats against fellow soldiers, commanders
By Jeff Schogol, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Thursday, January 7, 2010




Army Spc. Marc Hall


ARLINGTON, Va. — An Army specialist is in jail, accused of making threats against fellow soldiers, including in a vulgar, violent rap song that describes shooting those responsible for his stop-loss orders.

Spc. Marc Hall, an Iraq veteran based at Fort Stewart, Ga., has been in custody since early December. He’s been charged with “conduct prejudicial to the good order and discipline of the armed forces,” allegedly threatening violence on multiple occasions, according to Army charge sheets.

Hall is accused in various specifications of threatening to “go on a rampage,” attack other soldiers if he was deployed, and shoot the brigade and battalion commanders.

Another count accuses him of distributing “original songs wrongfully threatening acts of violence against members of his unit.” Hall reportedly mailed a copy of the song to the Pentagon after receiving his stop-loss orders over the summer. The song, posted on Hall’s personal Web site, does not name anyone specifically.

“[Expletive] you colonels, captains, E-7 and above
You think you so much bigger than I am? ...
I’m gonna round them up all eventually, easily, walk right up peacefully
And surprise them all, yes, yes, y’all, up against the wall, turn around
I got a [expletive] magazine with 30 rounds, on a three-round burst, ready to fire down
Still against the wall, I grab my M-4, spray and watch all the bodies hit the floor
I bet you never stop-loss nobody no more.”

“The chain of command has a legal obligation to the citizens of the United States to investigate and deal fairly with SPC Hall’s alleged misconduct,” Kevin Larson, a spokesman at Fort Stewart, said in an e-mail. “Anything less would be irresponsible to our citizens and soldiers.”

James Klimaski, a Washington-based lawyer, said that Iraq Veterans Against the War, an anti-war group to which Hall belongs, is trying to raise enough money for Hall to hire him as his civilian attorney. While Hall is jailed, his unit has deployed to Iraq without him, according to Klimaski.

Hall’s song is just a song and should not be taken literally, the lawyer said.

“Listen to rap songs,” Klimaski said. “I mean there are a whole bunch of rap songs talking about killing people all the time. Nobody gets killed from them.”

Klimaski also downplayed the allegations that Hall made additional threats.

“The problem with threats is they can’t be contingent,” he said. “ ‘I will do this if ...’ Well that’s not a threat because if ‘if’ doesn’t happen, then there’s no threat. Like, let’s say, ‘I’m going to shoot the battalion commander if I’m deployed.’ Well he’s not been deployed, so he’s not going to shoot the battalion commander, so there’s no threat.”

Klimaski also said the definition of rampage means to run around like a crazy person. “That’s not a threat,” he said.

Hall’s arrest came a little more than a month after Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was accused of killing 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas. Afterward, the military and law enforcement services were criticized for failing to heed what many said were signs that Hasan might commit violence. Among the signs were online postings sympathizing with Muslim suicide bombers and his vocal assertions that wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were wars against Islam.

Klimaski added that those who are a true threat typically don’t advertise their intentions.

“Maj. Hasan didn’t run around and say, ‘Hey, I’m going to blow people away at the hospital, or the infirmary today.’ Or the bomber going into Detroit says, ‘Oh, I should tell everyone I’m on this plane and blow the plane up,’” he said.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by JAGO

............................Klimaski added that those who are a true threat typically don’t advertise their intentions.

“Maj. Hasan didn’t run around and say, ‘Hey, I’m going to blow people away at the hospital, or the infirmary today.’ Or the bomber going into Detroit says, ‘Oh, I should tell everyone I’m on this plane and blow the plane up,’” he said.

What?

My take was Hall is not a Muslim.

[Ret10Echo]

Amazing rationalization. I guess if you can make that stretch without putting yourself in the hospital, then anything goes…… But counsel, I do not suggest you try that on a commercial flight.

“The problem with threats is they can’t be contingent,” he said. “ ‘I will do this if ...’ Well that’s not a threat because if ‘if’ doesn’t happen, then there’s no threat. Like, let’s say, ‘I’m going to shoot the battalion commander if I’m deployed.’ Well he’s not been deployed, so he’s not going to shoot the battalion commander, so there’s no threat.”

Nice touch adding the link to Hall's website...(????)

What?

My take was Hall is not a Muslim.

But Pete, how much cooler is the story by tying it to Hasan?

[JAGO]

It bugs me that PS&S even interviewed the lawyer - he's not part of the story, he's only a Rev. Al Sharpton type.... PS&S seems to be helping him either thru aide in recruiting disgruntled soldiers, or by comfort thru solicitation of donations. I've read S&S for many years, but selldom have i been impressed.

v/r
phil

[Costa]

So he's trying to be like popular rappers?

This attitude is going to be our downfall as a nation if we don't nip it.

[Dozer523]

Article 117
Text.

“Any person subject to this chapter who uses provoking or reproachful words or gestures towards any other person subject to this chapter shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”
Elements.

(1) That the accused wrongfully used words or gestures toward a certain person;
(2) That the words or gestures used were provoking or reproachful; and
(3) That the person toward whom the words or gestures were used was a person subject to the code.

Explanation.

(1) In general. As used in this article, “provoking” and “reproachful” describe those words or gestures which are used in the presence of the person to whom they are directed and which a reasonable person would expect to induce a breach of the peace under the circumstances. These words and gestures do not include reprimands, censures, re-proofs and the like which may properly be administered in the interests of training, efficiency, or discipline in the armed forces.
(2) Knowledge. It is not necessary that the accused have knowledge that the person toward whom the words or gestures are directed is a person subject to the code.
Lesser included offenses. Article 80—attempts

Maximum punishment. Confinement for 6 months and forfeiture of two-thirds pay per month for 6 months.

************************************************** *
Then stack a few for good measure Say. . . 89, 91, 94,

As for the argument-- the "civilians do it all the time" never worked before.

Don't spend the money on investigating the POS, just escort out of the Army and out the front gate.

We don't need him.

[x SF med]

He's a friggin VOLUNTEER SOLDIER, he knew that the needs of the Army could extend his enlistment.

Operative word, SOLDIER - the SP4 is not a civilian, and is held to a higher standard. Hang the whiner.

[VAKEMP]

Originally Posted by James Klimaski

“The problem with threats is they can’t be contingent,” he said. “ ‘I will do this if ...’ Well that’s not a threat because if ‘if’ doesn’t happen, then there’s no threat. Like, let’s say, ‘I’m going to shoot the battalion commander if I’m deployed.’ Well he’s not been deployed, so he’s not going to shoot the battalion commander, so there’s no threat.”

The problem with James Klimaski is that he is not familiar with the UCMJ, nor with the fact that Hall volunteered to serve in the military.

The UCMJ restricts certain idiotic behavior that is normally tolerated (can't really say it is accepted), and Hall volunteered to not only be subject to the articles of the UCMJ, but also to stop-loss.

According to the charge sheet, Hall enlisted in Sep '06. Even then stop-loss wasn't new, so why he chose to bitch and moan about something he should have known he had gotten himself into voluntarily makes no sense to me. It just makes him look like an idiot!

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by VAKEMP

The problem with James Klimaski is that he is not familiar with the UCMJ, nor with the fact that Hall volunteered to serve in the military.

The UCMJ restricts certain idiotic behavior that is normally tolerated (can't really say it is accepted), and Hall volunteered to not only be subject to the articles of the UCMJ, but also to stop-loss.

According to the charge sheet, Hall enlisted in Sep '06. Even then stop-loss wasn't new, so why he chose to bitch and moan about something he should have known he had gotten himself into voluntarily makes no sense to me. It just makes him look like an idiot!

That's because he is an IDIOT!!!...............

Big Teddy

[darbs]

Originally Posted by wet dog

Don't spend the money on investigating the POS, just escort out of the Army and out the front gate.

We don't need him.

Maybe we can go one farther and put him on a slow boat toward Somalia... Especially since he feels so compelled to get of of the Army, lets help him out of the U.S. all together... I'd gladly chip in to see him removed from OUR country.
POS like that has no business defending nor taking advantages of the liberties so many have fought and died for...