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Old 12-20-2009, 15:34   #1
lindy
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Where's the shared sacrifice of war?

I spent all day shoveling out from our 21" snowfall and playing taxi for my girls who had to be at the mall for work (that place was a zoo). I'm not a big CNN fan but I saw this during a lull in the shoveling and it got me thinking.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/OPINION/12/2...ice/index.html

Where's the shared sacrifice of war?
By Bob Greene, CNN Contributor

Editor's note: CNN Contributor Bob Greene is a best-selling author whose new book is "Late Edition: A Love Story."

(CNN) -- Another wartime Christmas week has arrived.

Yet on the streets of the United States, it often feels as if this is a nation that has half-forgotten that its sons and daughters are in combat.

Not literally, of course; Americans are intellectually aware that the campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq continue. And for the families of the young soldiers, sailors, Marines and aviators in combat zones, the wars never go away, even for a single tick of the clock.

But the lack of shared sacrifice during these war years -- the sense that those of us at home go on with our lives pretty much as usual while the men and women who have volunteered to be in uniform risk their own lives anew with each rising of the sun -- is a notion that is especially acute during the holiday season.

How have our lives changed during the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? What has residing in an America at war done to the texture of daily life?

The answer, if we're candid, seems to be: not much.

"There was this feeling that was almost a part of the air itself during World War II," a man named Joe Clark was telling me the other day. He is 77, a retired antiques dealer and clock repairman who lives in Pickerington, Ohio.

When he was a 10-year-old boy growing up in Shelby, Mississippi, he had a newspaper route. Every day, he would get on his Rollfast bicycle and deliver, to the people in his county, the two big newspapers from up in Memphis, Tennessee: the morning Commercial Appeal and the evening Press-Scimitar.

"The newspapers had maps on the front pages showing the developments in the war zones," he said. "Everyone followed the battle news, every day. I did, even as a child. The mood at home was determined by what was going on in the war. It was a somber feeling: We were all at war, together."

Today, we have the technological capacity to view live television pictures from war zones. Yet there is this nagging feeling that most of the time, few at home pay particularly close attention. People talk about their frustrations with the Wall Street banks; people talk about the H1N1 vaccine and its availability, or lack of it; people talk about the economy that never quite seems to find traction.

But the progress of the wars? As a day-to-day topic of constant conversation?

"I think we'd be paying more attention if we were being asked to give up anything," Clark said. "The shortages of basic goods during World War II, the rationing, made it impossible ever to forget what we were all in the middle of."

I have a book, dog-eared and yellowed over time, that I occasionally leaf through. Written almost 40 years ago by social historian Richard R. Lingeman, its title tells its story:

"Don't You Know There's a War On?"

The book is about the American home front during World War II, and of course everyone did, in fact, know that there was a war on. The fascinating thing about the text is the details demonstrating how every aspect of daily life was changed by the war. The products that were difficult for civilians to obtain: rubber and leather and sugar and metal and gasoline, all removed from unfettered circulation and conscripted for military use. The ration coupons that were a part of every family's life. The way books, advertisements, movies and popular songs were transformed because they were being read, watched and listened to by Americans consumed by thoughts of war.

"The songs became more sentimental, and even if they weren't literally about the war, you could hear the meaning of the war beneath the lyrics," Clark said. "The songs were kind of wistful, and what they were saying was: 'I hope nothing bad happens to you. I hope you come home quick.' "

Thus it was, during the winter of 1943, that Bing Crosby's recording of "I'll Be Home for Christmas" became the pure distillation of American yearning. It was the deepest wish of the soldiers and of their waiting families; "I'll Be Home for Christmas" was anchored by the song's softly shattering final words: "... if only in my dreams."

Today we say all the proper things when we encounter a soldier or a sailor; "Thank you for your service" has become part of the language, and that is a good development. But somehow it feels too easy; somehow those words seem only to emphasize the idea that it is someone else doing the serving while those at home move through life as if little has been altered.

A boy whose bicycle was loaded down with fresh editions between 1941 and 1945 instinctively understood how wartime had changed the country in which he was growing up.

"The simplest way to put it," Clark said, "is that I don't think there was a single day when every person in the United States didn't think about the war."

Speaking of newspapers, I have a copy of the Washington Evening Star, the Extra edition of August 14, 1945, carrying the announcement that the war was over.

The paragraph in the lead story that is inadvertently jarring is the third one, referring to what President Harry S. Truman has just told the nation:

"The President -- just three years, eight months and seven days after the Japanese sneak attack on Pearl Harbor -- announced the end of the war and decreed a two-day holiday of celebration for the American people."

The sobering part is those words:

"... just three years, eight months and seven days ..."

That is how long it took to fight and win World War II.

As this year's wartime Christmas week arrives, the United States has been fighting in Afghanistan for more than eight years. The United States has been fighting in Iraq for more than 6˝ years.

While, at home, life goes on.

"Sometimes it feels like we don't want to think about it," said Joe Clark, who once upon a time, every wartime day, tossed battlefield news toward Mississippi front porches.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Bob Greene.
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Old 12-20-2009, 18:19   #2
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I am not a huge fan of CNN, and tend to ignore them. Is this a theme that CNN has pounded consistently over the last seven years, or only post-Bush?
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Old 12-20-2009, 18:44   #3
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We fought WWII to win, and with a clear understanding of who and where the enemy was. I do not perceive a similar pattern in the present war on terror.

If the politicians want the public to sacrifice, they might need to come up with some clear answers. I doubt they are willing to do so.
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Old 12-20-2009, 19:52   #4
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Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.

Richard's jaded $.02
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Old 12-20-2009, 19:58   #5
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I am not a huge fan of CNN, and tend to ignore them. Is this a theme that CNN has pounded consistently over the last seven years, or only post-Bush?
With the disclaimer at the bottom it would seem it's only the authors!!
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:51   #6
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IMHO the reason that the nation is not at war, as we in the military most certainly are, lies soley with President Bush and his administration.

After the horror of 9/11 he had a choice to make; a choice in which the entire nation was put on war footing, or to try and get things for the American people back to normal as soon as possible, in the hopes of ensuring our economy did not crumble after the attacks. He chose the latter, and I think we all have to ask ourselves what we would do in the same position.

Yes we have a nation that is not truly sacrificing anything during this war effort, except for those of us in the military and our families. But given the economic hardships we find ourselves in as a nation, is that a bad thing? I don't know the answer, but could a nation "at war" driven us even further into the economic abyss?

We as military members know what we are getting into when we join. We know that our families will have to endure the hardships of what we do. I appreciate the thanks I get when someone sees me in the local community in my uniform, but that is not why I do it. Unless the leadership of this great nation decide that the war effort is somewhat akin to what we dealt with in WWII, thanks is all we can and should expect from the nation writ large.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:52   #7
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The media doesn't speak for "America"
For all the military members here please do not think the greater population doesn't know you at war and understand the importance of this situation.


For those that are running business and working for a living not knowing if/when/how things will go bad or worse one might want to reconsider if we are not sharing any sacrifice especially when it's time to write the quarterly tax payment check while trying to pay the bills and buy food. This stuff is not easy either and if one fails to get it done you don't have a place to live or a way to take care of the family.

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Old 12-21-2009, 13:29   #8
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But given the economic hardships we find ourselves in as a nation, is that a bad thing? I don't know the answer, but could a nation "at war" driven us even further into the economic abyss?
That's a very good question - one I don't claim to know the answer to.

With that disclaimer in place, I cannot help wondering if going to a war footing might not be best. Since 9/11 we have increased debt, both for government at all levels and privately. However, increased debt produces diminishing returns in terms of economic activity. We may be close to a critical point when additional debt produces no added growth.

In contrast, a war footing might discourage consumption and encourage savings, particularly in war bonds. In addition, we might end the war more quickly, resulting in less expenditure of both blood and treasure overall. Reduced consumption would reduce U.S. business activity - but it would also decrease global business activity. Might this put downward pressure on oil prices, thus giving a little economic pain to the very nations that support the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and so forth?

Of course, such a decision would require some degree of political courage, and hence remains in the realm of fantasy.
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Old 12-22-2009, 10:19   #9
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Nostalgia just ain't what it used to be.

Richard's jaded $.02
True. Some day we'll look fondly back at the Al Qaeda/Taliban/Iraq/ Afghan War Top 40 hits like "Who Let the Dogs Out".
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:21   #10
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Yes we have a nation that is not truly sacrificing anything during this war effort, except for those of us in the military and our families.
Afchic, have to disagree with you on "the not truely sacrificing" part. They / We are. The financial cost odf this war is astronomical! $944 Billion to date (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf). But they don't see it yet. Wanna share the sacrifice? try paying for this thing the old fashioned WWII way -- via War Bonds. OH YEAH! Who's gonna buy those bad boys? (NMAP, that's your cue.)
But given the economic hardships we find ourselves in as a nation, is that a bad thing? I don't know the answer, but could a nation "at war" driven us even further into the economic abyss? Probably. for one thing this is not a "world" war -- we're not fighting it full out everywhere. (Call it Global if you want but, it's not global in the WWII sence). It's not a conventional war either. So we don't have to make as much stuff as in WWII. Lots of WWII materiel fought the Axis from the bottom of the sea. Would the American people give up a new car or a new washing machine or a new computer because those factories had been converted to war production? Wow, that is a high pitched whine I'm not sure we could take.
We as military members know what we are getting into when we join. We know that our families will have to endure the hardships of what we do. I appreciate the thanks I get when someone sees me in the local community in my uniform, but that is not why I do it. Unless the leadership of this great nation decide that the war effort is somewhat akin to what we dealt with in WWII, thanks is all we can and should expect from the nation writ large.
The reason the American people tolerate the 9th year of this war is: they aren't paying for it now and they aren't wondering when they or their kids will read, "Greetings from the President of the United States. You are hereby inducted . . .
Many think they are doing their part, when they say "thanks". (I hope they aren't also thinking "sucker.")
Starbucks regular Venti is $2.00. But, "Thank you for your service coffee" is free! And, sometimes they throw in the cookie, too.

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Old 12-22-2009, 11:24   #11
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True. Some day we'll look fondly back at the Al Qaeda/Taliban/Iraq/ Afghan War Top 40 hits like "Who Let the Dogs Out".
Geez Bob,I can't help but agree with you................

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Old 01-02-2010, 07:19   #12
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Can we really expect Americans to think they are at war when the POTUS says we are not?


LINK

War? What War?
The Obama administration refuses to admit that we are at war.

By Charles Krauthammer

Janet Napolitano — former Arizona governor, now overmatched secretary of homeland security — will forever be remembered for having said of the attempt to bring down an airliner over Detroit: “The system worked.” The attacker’s concerned father had warned U.S. authorities about his son’s jihadist tendencies. The would-be bomber paid cash and checked no luggage on a transoceanic flight. He was nonetheless allowed to fly, and would have killed 288 people in the air alone, save for a faulty detonator and quick actions by a few passengers.

Heck of a job, Brownie.

The reason the country is uneasy about the Obama administration’s response to this attack is a distinct sense of not just incompetence but incomprehension. From the very beginning, President Obama has relentlessly tried to downplay and deny the nature of the terrorist threat we continue to face. Napolitano renames terrorism “man-caused disasters.” Obama goes abroad and pledges to cleanse America of its post-9/11 counterterrorist sins. Hence, Guantanamo will close, CIA interrogators will face a special prosecutor, and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed will bask in a civilian trial in New York — a trifecta of political correctness and image management.

And just to make sure even the dimmest understand, Obama banishes the term “war on terror.” It’s over — that is, if it ever existed.

Obama may have declared the war over. Unfortunately, al-Qaeda has not. Which gives new meaning to the term “asymmetric warfare.”

And produces linguistic — and logical — oddities that littered Obama’s public pronouncements following the Christmas Day attack. In his first statement, Obama referred to Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab as “an isolated extremist.” This is the same president who, after the Ford Hood shooting, warned us “against jumping to conclusions” — code for daring to associate Nidal Hasan’s mass murder with his Islamist ideology. Yet, with Abdulmutallab, Obama jumped immediately to the conclusion, against all existing evidence, that the bomber acted alone.

More jarring still were Obama’s references to the terrorist as a “suspect” who “allegedly tried to ignite an explosive device.” You can hear the echo of FDR: “Yesterday, Dec. 7, 1941 — a date which will live in infamy — Japanese naval and air force suspects allegedly bombed Pearl Harbor.”

Obama reassured the nation that this “suspect” had been charged. Reassurance? The president should be saying: We have captured an enemy combatant — an illegal combatant under the laws of war: no uniform, direct attack on civilians — and now to prevent future attacks, he is being interrogated regarding information he may have about al-Qaeda in Yemen.

Instead, Abdulmutallab is dispatched to some Detroit-area jail and immediately lawyered up. At which point — surprise! — he stops talking.

This absurdity renders hollow Obama’s declaration that “we will not rest until we find all who were involved.” Once we’ve given Abdulmutallab the right to remain silent, we have gratuitously forfeited our right to find out from him precisely who else was involved, namely those who trained, instructed, armed, and sent him.

This is all quite mad even in Obama’s terms. He sends 30,000 troops to fight terror overseas, yet if any terrorists come to attack us here, they are magically transformed from enemy into defendant.

The logic is perverse. If we find Abdulmutallab in an al-Qaeda training camp in Yemen, where he is merely preparing for a terror attack, we snuff him out with a Predator — no judge, no jury, no qualms. But if we catch him in the United States in the very act of mass murder, he instantly acquires protection not just from execution by drone but even from interrogation.

The president said that this incident highlights “the nature of those who threaten our homeland.” But the president is constantly denying the nature of those who threaten our homeland. On Tuesday, he referred five times to Abdulmutallab (and his terrorist ilk) as “extremist(s).”

A man who shoots abortion doctors is an extremist. An eco-fanatic who torches logging sites is an extremist. Abdulmutallab is not one of these. He is a jihadist. And unlike the guys who shoot abortion doctors, jihadists have cells all over the world; they blow up trains in London, nightclubs in Bali, and airplanes over Detroit (if they can); and they are openly pledged to wage war on America.

Any government can through laxity let someone slip through the cracks. But a government that refuses to admit that we are at war, indeed, refuses even to name the enemy — jihadist is a word banished from the Obama lexicon — turns laxity into a governing philosophy.
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Old 01-02-2010, 08:56   #13
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Obama reassured the nation that this “suspect” had been charged. Reassurance? The president should be saying: We have captured an enemy combatant (color added by respondent) — an illegal combatant under the laws of war: no uniform, direct attack on civilians — and now to prevent future attacks, he is being interrogated regarding information he may have about al-Qaeda in Yemen. No, Abdulmutallab should be given the status of POW.

Instead, Abdulmutallab is dispatched to some Detroit-area jail and immediately lawyered up. At which point — surprise! — he stops talking. He should be carted off to a POW Camp, overseen by the Red Cross afforded the protections of the GC and interned for the duration.

This absurdity renders hollow Obama’s declaration that “we will not rest until we find all who were involved.” Once we’ve given Abdulmutallab the right to remain silent, we have gratuitously forfeited our right to find out from him precisely who else was involved, namely those who trained, instructed, armed, and sent him. "Absurdity" is a dangerous word. It is just as absurd to criminalize everything anyone does that the USA does not like. It is absurd not to call an enemy who is arrayed against us an enemy, instead we call them criminals. For what purpose? So we could deny them the protections of the GC. Protections we have always demanded for ourselves on the world stage. The North Vietnamese had to coerce Americans who fell into their hands to "confess" in order to justify denial of POW status. And it was ridiculed around the world and only added to our Moral Ascendancy. Once you deem someone a criminal YOU have to afford, encourage and enforce the protections of our legal system. We tried to get around that by setting up prisons in foreign lands (to the point of hypocrisy is Cuba, former soviet Block countries and repressive Arab states).

This is all quite mad even in Obama’s terms. He sends 30,000 troops to fight terror overseas, yet if any terrorists come to attack us here, they are magically transformed from enemy into defendant. They were "magically" transformed from enemy a long time ago when we said we were fighting against a criminal conspiracy and changed the rules of war. If they are not dead, they have to be something! they should have been left POWs. POW's have rights that are much more limited -- mostly to protections of life. Criminals have protectios to life and liberty.
The logic is perverse. If we find Abdulmutallab in an al-Qaeda training camp in Yemen, where he is merely preparing for a terror attack, we snuff him out with a Predator — no judge, no jury, no qualms. But if we catch him in the United States in the very act of mass murder, he instantly acquires protection not just from execution by drone but even from interrogation. Exactly. Except we declared him a criminal, by definition he has rights. Because aren't we fighting the ? against terror to preserve our way of life?
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Old 01-02-2010, 13:19   #14
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I'm asking to learn...

Are those who lack markings and do not openly carry arms, such as was the case with Abdulmutallab, still enjoy coverage under the GC?

I refer now to the provisions of article 4. LINK
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Old 01-02-2010, 15:32   #15
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I'm asking to learn...

Are those who lack markings and do not openly carry arms, such as was the case with Abdulmutallab, still enjoy coverage under the GC?

I refer now to the provisions of article 4. LINK
N, I'm trying to figure this out myself. I mean at first blush he looks like a common criminal of the terrorist type, a long the likes of Red Brigade, IRA from the 80's. So what is different? Is it that we aren't Italian or British? Is it that we've designated this a war (for us) but a police action for the AQ etc? I don't know, but the rules are are not being applied. Maybe Abdul should be designated a saboteur. But under the rules of war. Does that make him like a spy? I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out. What I have figured out is what we have isn't working.
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