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Old 12-07-2009, 07:02   #1
JAGO
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USMC Spec Ops MOS

Well if competition for MFP-11 funding wasn't bad enough - this will make it worse.

IIRC it was Pres. Truman who said, "The Soviet's propaganda machine is second only, to the U.S. Marine Corps'"

They will continue to tell the congress that they can do any mission better than any other component. And to think, they refused to join the SOC community after Goldwater-Nichols. We still provided them with quota sources in our schools. They slowly built up a cadre of grads, joined SOC, and now are duplicating the schools.....

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http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news...arsoc_120709w/

Spec ops MOS almost a reality

By Trista Talton - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Dec 7, 2009 6:16:23 EST

CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C. — Marine special operators will have their own military occupational specialty in coming weeks, according to the Corps’ recently retired spec ops commander.

The move will benefit members of Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command by allowing manpower officials to keep closer tabs on their career progression — and it could set the stage for targeted re-enlistment bonuses for the Corps’ commando community, Maj. Gen. Mastin Robeson said Nov. 20 after his retirement ceremony at Camp Lejeune, where MarSOC is based.

MarSOC officials say the MOS will be reserved for Marines who graduate from the command’s Individual Training Course, a seven-month program tailored to Marine special operations. ITC covers a wealth of spec ops disciplines, including training in foreign internal defense, direct action and close-quarters battle, among others.

Robeson, who was replaced at MarSOC by Maj. Gen. Paul Lefebvre, said creation of a spec ops MOS represents a smart step forward for the young command. Less than four years old, MarSOC needs to focus on retaining the Marines it trains rather than returning them to the conventional force as it does now, he said.

It’s not immediately clear whether special operators will receive a primary or secondary MOS. Marines compete for promotion and vie for re-enlistments in their primary job skill. Secondary MOSs can include tours as recruiters, drill instructors or marksmanship instructors.

It’s also unclear what benefits would be available to those who earn the spec ops MOS, or whether this is indeed a first step to keeping Marine special operators on a spec ops career path.

Getting in and staying in
MarSOC’s first commander, Lt. Gen. Dennis Hejlik, argued that returning Marines to the regular Corps allows them an opportunity to climb the career ladder. But the idea has been unpopular among Marines who want to go and stay spec ops in a manner similar to Navy’s SEALs.

“The right discussion is the career tracking,” Robeson said. “What’s the career path of a Marine special operator? What you want is a healthy, rotational career tracking that allows you to develop not just your skills as an operator, but your skills within the special operations community that prepares you to be a senior staff noncommissioned officer and a senior officer in the Marine Corps and U.S. Special Operations Command.”

A special operator should serve a four- to six-year operational tour in MarSOC, he said, and then spend time doing something else in special operations, such as teaching at the command’s schoolhouse, completing a joint SOCom staff tour or elsewhere within SOCom. Ideally, Robeson said, that Marine would then come back for another operational tour in MarSOC.

The Corps already is moving in that direction, he noted, pulling Marines from MarSOC battalions to serve as ITC instructors and then allowing them to go back to being operators.

But Marines who want to join MarSOC may have a long wait before they can become special operators. Currently, the command doesn’t have enough instructors to run simultaneous ITCs, something officials had hoped to start this year.

Only one ITC — about 60 Marines — has graduated in 2009. Marines going through the second ITC are on track to graduate in February. Once that happens, another course will begin.

The goal, Robeson said, is to conduct three to four courses in a year.

Running more courses will allow MarSOC to reach its end-strength of 2,600 operators and support staff. Right now, the command has nearly 2,200 Marines, sailors, soldiers and civilians. Robeson said MarSOC needs to grow by another 1,000, pushing the total force to 3,600.

MarSOC also needs more combat support and combat service support Marines, including those in human intelligence, explosive ordnance disposal and military working dogs, who can “right-size” the command, he said. Those additional Marines would give every team downrange a slice of those capabilities, Robeson said.

It remains to be seen if Lefebvre shares Robeson’s objectives. The general was not immediately available to discuss his agenda for the command.

“This is not about the ability to kick a door in and shoot somebody,” Robeson said. “It’s about the ability to influence in a positive way a region that is susceptible to insurgency, to terrorism and to factions and actions that would be counter to that nation’s health.”
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:19   #2
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My Dad was in the PTO in WW2. He used to say an Army squad had 10 men - 8 riflemen and 2 auto-riflemen...and a Marine squad had 12 men - 8 riflemen, 2 auto-riflemen, a journalist and a photographer to make sure they were in the news.

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Old 12-07-2009, 08:16   #3
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Mission Creep

Someday they're going to need some Marines to do what Marines are supposed to do and they won't be able to find any who can do it anymore..
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:06   #4
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Someday they're going to need some Marines to do what Marines are supposed to do and they won't be able to find any who can do it anymore..
Good point Bob...............

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Old 12-07-2009, 13:32   #5
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May not be a good step for the Army but I think it's a good step for us and something that Marines should have been doing a while ago.
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Old 12-07-2009, 14:13   #6
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We agree....

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May not be a good step for the Army but I think it's a good step for us and something that Marines should have been doing a while ago.
We agree but you'll soon find out what we already know. Too may socks and and not enough boots.

Once the schools get up and running at full speed and the guys start going off to the joint positions you're tail is going to get bigger than the teeth.
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Old 12-07-2009, 15:24   #7
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If they're going to become a viable SOF organization, they're going to have to develop a career path. Assigning a lad to a MARSOC unit for 5 years, then sending him back to mother Marines won't do SOCOM, or its other components any good in the long run. MARSOC itself would be in a continual 'build' cycle, with no longevity.
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Old 12-07-2009, 15:54   #8
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I still think we need a new branch

Service branches

United States Army
United States Navy
United States Air Force
United States Coast Guard
USPHS Commmisioned Corps
NOAA Commissioned Corps

United States Special Forces,, Besides the obvious,, add the SEALs & Marines,, and augment the air support we currently have....

United States Marine Corps - merge with Rangers as 2 ID's under Special Forces

My $00.0002
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Old 12-07-2009, 23:40   #9
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Robeson, who was replaced at MarSOC by Maj. Gen. Paul Lefebvre, said creation of a spec ops MOS represents a smart step forward for the young command.
I can't speak for the overall implications of the article but I'm not sure how big of a 'step forward' the MOS itself is. It appears to me that they're just rearranging things. The MC used to have 86xx secondary MOSs for Force Recon Marines and then transitioned those into 03xx primary ones not long before Force Recon was disbanded.

Regarding the career path, many FR/Recon Bn. Marines spent the majority of their time in their MOS. That's not to say that there weren't any "ticket punchers" but I don't believe they were a big percentage, especially on the enlisted side.
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Old 12-08-2009, 13:16   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOGvet View Post
If they're going to become a viable SOF organization, they're going to have to develop a career path. Assigning a lad to a MARSOC unit for 5 years, then sending him back to mother Marines won't do SOCOM, or its other components any good in the long run. MARSOC itself would be in a continual 'build' cycle, with no longevity.
This is what they did back in the day when you went to Ranger training and after completion sent back to your company and be a leader.........

Big Teddy
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I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver

SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney

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Old 12-08-2009, 18:59   #11
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It's a joint world and SOCOM is leading the way.
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Old 12-08-2009, 20:12   #12
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I still think we need a new branch

Service branches

United States Army
United States Navy
United States Air Force
United States Coast Guard
USPHS Commmisioned Corps
NOAA Commissioned Corps

United States Special Forces,, Besides the obvious,, add the SEALs & Marines,, and augment the air support we currently have....

United States Marine Corps - merge with Rangers as 2 ID's under Special Forces

My $00.0002
It's interesting that you mention the service moves...Marines were originally created in 1775 to provide security for friendly Navy ships, boarding parties for assaulting enemy ships, and raiding parties to land ashore and secure a landing site for follow-on actions. We still hold those as our guiding mission parameters today, and although we are considered a service, we are still a department of the Navy and the SecNav is the next step in the chain of command after the Commandant.
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Old 12-09-2009, 13:53   #13
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From what I've read....

MarSoc was one of the solutions implemented to solve the general SOCOM force growth mission. Need I mention the 4(5) tenents of SOF....? I don't see what the MC is bringing to the table, apart from SOF motivated warm bodies.

In a perfect world. The smart solution would have been to stream line recruiting from MC to the 18x program and allow proactive recruiting out of the Corps. But politics leads the way, no way in hell the Corp or the Navy would allow the Army to poach it's best guys.

So what we have is all this money and resource essentially going into building a second SWC just to essentialy get another SF group

By my estimate we are doubling up around 500 bodies with the duplication of "tail" positions, not to mention reinventing the lessons learned, culture, training, wheels, etc.

Where did I read the plans for SOCOM to be moved the next step from being it's own entity financially to actually becoming a "branch"?

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Old 12-09-2009, 14:29   #14
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It's interesting that you mention the service moves...Marines were originally created in 1775 to provide security for friendly Navy ships, boarding parties for assaulting enemy ships, and raiding parties to land ashore and secure a landing site for follow-on actions. We still hold those as our guiding mission parameters today, and although we are considered a service, we are still a department of the Navy and the SecNav is the next step in the chain of command after the Commandant.
True, but I think the Marine Corps is way to big the way it is now.
The USMC was created to supplement the teeth of the Navy.

The fat needs to be cut.
Slim down to a pure fighting force.
The tail, even though it is smaller than other services, is holding us back.
Anything we don't have we can borrow from our sister services.

We'll see how this Marsoc deal pans out.
The more they don't get what they want, the more guys are leaving to go to SF.
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Old 12-11-2009, 23:33   #15
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Already happening

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Originally Posted by SOGvet View Post
If they're going to become a viable SOF organization, they're going to have to develop a career path. Assigning a lad to a MARSOC unit for 5 years, then sending him back to mother Marines won't do SOCOM, or its other components any good in the long run. MARSOC itself would be in a continual 'build' cycle, with no longevity.
Many of us that were part of the original members to stand up MARSOC have received orders, or are about to receive orders out of the command and back to the "fleet". It is a ludicrous thought process / system. Hence the reason many of us are looking to other options once our current contracts are up

It is also interesting to read what MajGen Robeson is telling SOCOM and the rest of the services IRT rotating through various SOF billets....That sure as hell isn't what we are being told
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