Things That Make You Go HMMM

[afchic]

It is articles such as this that really have me shaking my head over race relations in this country. I truly feel sorry for hardworking people that are loosing their jobs in this economy. But how does this become a race issue? It seems to me that depending on where you work, whites and blacks are just as likely to loose, or retain their jobs.

To me it is all about education. If you have some college, in this tough economy, you are more likely to find and/or retain a job than you are if you just have a high school diploma, white or black. It all goes back to making yourself more competitive than the guy/gal sitting next to you.

Being a white, upper middle class woman, maybe I just don't get it. But I came from a lower/middle middle class background. College was not a sure thing for any of the 4 children in my family. We all had some kind of scholarship, we all worked full time, and we all took out loans to help put ourselves through school. 4 kids in school at the same time was very difficult for my parents, but they did what they could for us. Neither of my parents have AAD. My mom is an RN and my dad got his bachelors degree while he was in the service. They always taught us the value of an education.

Three out of four have Master's Degrees that we took out student loans to pay for. All four of us are now very successful in our chosen professions. All four of us are upper middle class. None of that would have happened if we didn't take it upon ourselves to do well enough in high school to facilitate our entry into college. Once there, hard work and perseverance got us to where we are today.

My best friend is a GS-7, and her husband is a SMSgt in the AF. They make a decent living. They have two children, and their son once asked his mom why we were "better off" than they were. Her answer to which was, "the difference between your dad and I, and Allison and Carl, is a college education"


Blacks fear path to middle class blocked
Recession raises concerns that hard-won gains of recent years will be lost
By Allison Linn
Senior writer
updated 8:34 a.m. CT, Tues., Dec . 1, 2009
OAKLAND, Calif. - In nearly two decades working at the NUMMI auto plant, Lynn Chess has been able to buy a house, fund her children’s college education and even afford luxuries such as a 2008 cruise she took with family and friends.

“The job had actually been really good to me,” said Chess, 53, who expected to work at the Fremont, Calif., plant until her retirement.

But Chess isn’t likely to have that chance. Earlier this year, Toyota announced it would stop making vehicles at the plant in the Bay Area, soon after its former partner General Motors also pulled out. The decision to stop production in March means Chess, her two sisters, a brother-in-law and a nephew will be among the approximately 4,700 workers expected to lose their jobs.

“It’s just really, really bad right now,” she said. “I don’t see that light at the end of the tunnel.”

More than 2 million workers have lost their jobs in manufacturing since the recession began in December 2007, and many of those jobs are not expected to return even as the economy recovers. That is a big concern for all Americans, but the disappearance of so many solid working-class jobs with benefits could be especially devastating to black workers.

Manufacturing jobs have historically been an important path to the middle class for black families, but blacks have been losing those jobs at a faster clip than other workers in recent years, according to the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a left-leaning think tank.

While black workers were as likely as other workers to hold manufacturing jobs between the late 1970s and the early 1990s, by 2007, blacks were about 15 percent less likely to have a job in manufacturing than workers of other races and ethnicities, researchers at the center found.

On a broader level, blacks long have faced a much higher unemployment rate than the population as a whole and are now facing a much deeper employment crisis than the entire work force. The unemployment rate for blacks hit 15.7 percent in November, compared with 10.2 percent for the nation as a whole.

The long, deep downturn is raising concerns that the recession could cause permanent economic damage to blacks who have reached middle-class status.

“The erosion of earnings of African-Americans in this recession is another real consequence that’s hitting the middle class,” said Ronald Mincy, a professor at the Columbia University School of Social Work.

Another concern is that such a large-scale loss of middle-class jobs will undo some of the progress made in recent decades combating poverty among blacks.

Thanks in large part to improved employment prospects, the poverty rate for blacks generally decreased through the mid-1980s and 1990s, hitting an all-time low of 22.5 percent in 2000. But by 2008, the poverty rate for blacks had risen again to 24.7 percent, compared to 13.2 percent for the population as a whole.

Fewer good jobs
In the current recession, experts are particularly concerned about black workers who don’t have advanced training or a college degree and who are losing the type of good jobs, with health care and retirement benefits, that are becoming scarce.

“In the old world we had three bad jobs, four middle jobs and three good jobs,” said Steven Pitts, labor policy specialist at the University of California, Berkeley. “Today we’re getting maybe five bad jobs, three middle jobs and two good jobs.”

Pitts' research also has shown that about 40 percent of black workers are employed in three major industry sectors: Retail, health care and social assistance, and manufacturing.

In addition, many experts say that black workers continue to face a tougher time finding employment, and are more likely to be unemployed longer than the nation as a whole.

“We still see the issue of discrimination in the labor market,” said Algernon Austin, director of the program on race, ethnicity and the economy at the Economic Policy Institute. “(There are) still anti-black stereotypes that make it harder for black workers to find jobs.”

Fears of homelessness
Some black workers who have lost their jobs in this very difficult market say they fear falling into the kind of poverty and financial struggles that disproportionately affect blacks in the United States.

When Demanus James, 48, was working as a custodian at the University of California, Berkeley, she often would pass homeless people on her way to and from work and occasionally would help them out with things like bus fare or clothing. Now that her job has been eliminated, she worries she could become one of them.

“That’s my biggest fear, because I’m not going to be able to hang out on the street, homeless,” she said.

James, whose mother and grandmother also worked as custodians at the university, and whose brother still works there, said the job paid enough for her to rent an apartment in a nice neighborhood and occasionally splurge on little treats, such as getting her nails done with her granddaughter. It also offered health and retirement benefits.

At her age, she thinks it will be tough to find any job, let alone one that offers the same level of pay and benefits.

“It’s rough out there for everybody, not just blacks,” she said. “Everybody’s going through it right now.”

James also worries about the effect her job loss might have on her 11-year-old granddaughter, for whom she wants to be a positive role model.

“If you get a working family, your kids will work,” James said.


Bobby Jones, 44, shares James' fears.

“I don’t want to be without health care. I don’t want to be unemployed. I don’t want to be homeless,” he said. “I try to be a representation of the opposite of that.”

As soon as he found out he'd be losing his job as a janitor at UC Berkeley, Jones said he immediately put together a resume. After about two months he'd had two job interviews.

He’s also working on starting his own business. Despite the economy, Jones said milestones such as having a black president have given him hope.

“Just having a person of color in office should inspire people like myself,” he said.

Middle-class dreams realized
Some worry that this recession will spell the end of their middle-class dreams.

[afchic]

Chess, the NUMMI plant worker, came to California from Louisiana as a child when her father got a job at the carmaking plant, which was then owned by General Motors.

Although her father did not even get his high school equivalency degree until he was in his 70s, his career in the auto industry afforded the family a middle-class life and paved the way for Chess and others in her family to get similar jobs.

Chess started working at the plant in 1975. When GM shut its operations there in the mid-1980s, she moved to Oregon and worked as a bank teller.

Chess returned in 1991 to work at the plant, which by then had reopened as NUMMI, a joint venture between General Motors and Toyota.

Chess and her co-workers already have had their hours cut because of the downturn in auto sales, and in part because of that she recently made the difficult decision to allow her house in Antioch, Calif., to fall into foreclosure.

The housing woes many are facing on top of their employment concerns have led her and her family to joke darkly that if they cannot find new jobs, they’ll all be reduced to sharing the same cardboard box.

Although she has seen some jobs in her field as a training coordinator, most require a college degree that she doesn’t have. And at age 53, Chess worries that employers will favor younger workers over her extensive experience. She hopes that racial bias won’t play a role in her job prospects.

“It’s hard to tell, would it be race or age? Either one I’m still scared,” she said.

Chess also fears the effect the plant closing might have on her daughter, who worked summers at the plant while she was in college and recently endured a difficult job search of her own. Although Chess’ daughter did eventually find work, it was not in the field she studied in college.

“I don’t want her to really get set back even further because I’m losing my job,” Chess said. “She has a college education, and it’s hard for her to find a job.”


© 2009 msnbc.com Reprints

[Rumblyguts]

I agree with your linkage of education and quality of life.

However, I think that you might be looking a bit too far down the road: college/votech/apprenticeships

Does everyone in lower grades have an equal shot at education, recieve the same quality, or have the same social contexts that facilitate learning?

[Pete]

There are many angles to this story, most do not have anything to do with race. Manufacturing jobs in states doing everything they can to kill business?

There are some that say the black middle class is growing because of government jobs, school teachers, city & county workers, state workers - the feds

One of the few areas that is showing an increase right now is government jobs.

One of the harder hit demographics right now is males.

[afchic]

Originally Posted by Rumblyguts

I agree with your linkage of education and quality of life.

However, I think that you might be looking a bit too far down the road: college/votech/apprenticeships

Does everyone in lower grades have an equal shot at education, recieve the same quality, or have the same social contexts that facilitate learning?

Good questions, and I think that is where parents come in. Yes I believe everyone has the same shot to go to school, as long as their parents believe in the value of a good education. Does everyone recieve the same quality? Once again, that is where parents come into play. If you are involved in your child's education, then yes they will recieve a quality education. Social context SCREAMS of parental involvement.

I am not saying votech/apprenticeships are not good things. I have a son who attended college for 2 years and decide it wasn't for him, so he is getting his CDL license. We as parents, helped him to decide what path he wanted to take at this point in his life. He will do well in his chosen profession. I still hope and pray that he will go back to school and at least get his Associates Degree, to have something to fall back on, if he needs it.

[1stindoor]

So many want to make this an issue of race when it comes down to being "skilled" or "unskilled" in the job market. True, there's many manufacturing jobs that are out there that require a particular skillset. Unfortunately, that "skill" only equates to being qualified in that very narrow area. We have equated the guy working an assembly line job as "skilled," and that has only made things worse. I am reminded of the forklift driver for GM that went from making over 100 G's a year to less than 70 due to a loss in work hours. And then complaining that he doesn't have the necessary training to find other employment.

A college degree isn't the only path to success...but the willingness to learn more, to understand more and to increase those things you are capable of doing will further insulate you from the ups and downs in the job market.

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by afchic

Good questions, and I think that is where parents come in....

My wife is a school teacher (in her 20th year now) and I can tell you that the level of parental involvement drops every year. Too many, from every social, ethnic, and education level simply use the school system as a babysitter. You would be shocked and appalled (or maybe not) at how many don't bother to attend parent/teacher's conferences, fill out necessary paperwork, or bother to pick up their child when they're sick. But let little johnny or jane not get a "feel good" certificate during awards day...or have one of them get bad grades and see how fast the school board and school administrators get called about "ineffective teachers."

whew...okay, rant's over...sorry

[Warrior-Mentor]

One of the cardinal rules I am constantly reminding myself:

"You can have ANYTHING YOU WANT,
as long as you HELP ENOUGH OTHER PEOPLE GET WHAT THEY WANT."

If more people thought about how they could help more people,
we'd ALL be a lot better off.

I picked that saying up from "Think and Grow Rich" by Napolean Hill.

You can read it here for FREE:
http://www.tools-for-abundance.com/s...ndgrowrich.pdf

I don't think Henry Ford realized that he was paving the way for Socialism when he created the middle class, but that could be the result of the factory line and the mentality that it created ( businesses and governement have an obligation to take care of me).

Unfortunately, a by-product of his success may have been the killing off of a large part of the entreprenuerial spirit in this country that thrived by necessity before then...

[GratefulCitizen]

Success is a choice.

You can't always control the pathway, exact nature, or timeline.
However, you do control the critical ingredient: persistence.

Success = don't give up
Not rocket science.

[Richard]

I don't think Henry Ford realized that he was paving the way for Socialism when he created the middle class...

Since when? Is this some type of algorian citation?

The idea of what was/is middle class has changed many times throughout history and goes back much farther than Henry Ford. However, Henry Ford and America's industrial revolutionary period are considered by historians to have been instrumental in creating America's second middle class - a shift from the previous agrarian middle class to an industrial middle class - which shifted yet again post-WW2 to the more recent service worker based third American middle class. As to the future...who can say.

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02

[GratefulCitizen]

Frequently chat about this sort of thing with a close friend of mine.

His story:

Youngest of 10 children.
Grew up in poverty, a black family in a somewhat racist area of Kentucky.
Parents split when he was 4, he lived with his dad.
His dad died when he was 9, went back to live with his mother and abusive grandmother.

His dad did one very valuable thing for him.
From the time he could read, he was put in front of the encyclopedia and told to learn all he could learn.
Learning would be his path to success.
The importance of learning was stressed consistently.

He graduated high school at age 17.
Went to college at the Colorado School of Mines on scholarships and financial aid.
He worked in the computing center in order to make extra money and learn more about computers.
Took jobs during the summer programming in order to make money and gain experience.

Lived cheaply during college and after.
Didn't own a car, didn't even get a driver's license until age 23.
Graduated with a degree in chemistry.

Despite having only taken 2 computer classes in his life, his extensive experience programming led him into that field.
He dedicated himself to fully mastering his trade.

Didn't start making real money until age 24.
Made his first million by age 35.

Now, at age 37, he has significant investments set aside and could retire today if he wished.
Typically dictates to his employer whether he will work from the office or telecommute.
Has headhunters seeking him all the time.

He also had the satisfaction of paying off his mother's house and being a financial patron of sorts to some of his family.
Not bad for a last-born.

When he hears excuses about various barriers to success, he scoffs.

[Sigaba]

FWIW, I agree with Pete. The news story is all over the place.

It defines "middle class" too loosely. At times, middle class seems to be about education. At others, occupation and earnings. In other instances, it is about home ownership. Then there's the question of upward (and downward) social mobility. Penultimately, there are the issues of geography (from South to West and rural to urban) and culture (what does it mean to be 'middle class'?). And finally there are the issues of age and generation. (Would it kill anyone to pay at least some lip service to gender?)

All in all, it reminds me of a story African American middle class that was published in the New York Times Magazine this past summer. That story, available here, had a similar (lack of) focus.

If I sound bitter it is because I am. News stories like these highlight differences between the African American experience and the "mainstream" of American society at the expense of showing the similarities.

IMO, these differences are critically important, especially to historians and other academics to say nothing of the people who experience those differences first hand.

Yet focusing on them in such an inchoate fashion may prevent Americans from understanding that they can draw positive lessons from the experiences of their fellow citizens regardless of class, race, region, ideology, and gender.

[kimberly]

Originally Posted by Rumblyguts

...

Does everyone in lower grades have an equal shot at education, recieve the same quality, or have the same social contexts that facilitate learning?

No, they don't. From the beginning of a person's education they are pigeon-holed. From K through 12 a child's records follow him/her, each teacher's comments influencing the next. All of that has an impact on the quality of education each child receives and it sets up each child with their very own picture of how self-esteem is developed and how reputation can be different than reality. All of that plays heavily in a person's education from the beginning.

College is way less labelling, but the patterns are set in place for each student already. Some are difficult to overcome.


As for the original post, the color of one's skin is used as an excuse for failure and success, IMO. It's all in the mind. A successful black person may believe he/she has become successful IN SPITE of being black. A white or asian wouldn't think that.

The loss of manufacturing jobs isn't new to this recession. It has been going on for a long time. Michigan has lost hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs going back 20 years or more. So how would it impact blacks more than anyone else just lately?

The recession is hitting everyone alike.

[afchic]

Originally Posted by kimberly

No, they don't. From the beginning of a person's education they are pigeon-holed. From K through 12 a child's records follow him/her, each teacher's comments influencing the next. All of that has an impact on the quality of education each child receives and it sets up each child with their very own picture of how self-esteem is developed and how reputation can be different than reality. All of that plays heavily in a person's education from the beginning.

I don't agree. A child is pigeon holed if the parent allows it to happen. If a teacher soley relies on what the previous teacher said, they are not doing due diligence, IMO. My sister has been teaching at the elementary school level for 14 years and agrees with me.

As far as the parental involvement is concerned: While my step son was in his mother's care he was pigeon holed as special needs. That all changed when he came to live with his father and I. Whereas his mother did not become involved in his education because it was "easier", his father and I were very involved. I was at school every week in his classroom. We knew all of his teachers and spoke to them on a weekly basis.

When he came to live with us, he was 15, doing 3rd grade English, and in the same special needs class with severly mentally challenged children. He didn't do more because he wasn't asked to do more. The school would not support mainstreaming him into any classes, come to find out it was because they would loose some of their federal funding if they did. Can't have that now can we??

That all changed when his father got custody of him. We changed his school, and convinced his new teachers to throw out his Education Plan. They agreed that he was not being challenged, and had been misdiagnosed as severe ADD. They set up a new education plan with our involvement. By the time he graduated high school, he was mainstreamed into 4 out of 6 classes, and the 2 special ed classes he was still in, were the highest level.

He is now attending college, and going to get his CDL. Had we not moved him to another state, and become very actively involved in his education he would not be a functioning adult. But we did, and he got out of the pigeon hole.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by afchic

I don't agree. A child is pigeon holed if the parent allows it to happen. If a teacher soley relies on what the previous teacher said, they are not doing due diligence, IMO. ........

I am not big on public schools or their teachers but have to agree with afchic.

The schools, teachers and resources are "THERE!" After that it is up to the child, with help & support from the parents, to learn. You get out what you put in.

If the parent allows to student to skip school, skip assignments, not do homework or projects, mouth off to school staff, etc, etc, etc they will be pigeon holed.

Opportunity is out there for everybody - but it is up to the individual to make a grab for it.

The life choices you make when you're young can come back to bite you.