07-20-2004, 17:26
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#1
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Hornet Nest Poker
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Berger & Kerry
Will this affect Kerry's poll numbers with the public?
Last edited by Airbornelawyer; 07-20-2004 at 19:16.
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Pandora is offline
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07-20-2004, 17:31
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#2
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Re: Berger & Kerry
Quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Will this affect Kerry's poll numbers with the public?
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Only if the media covers it the way they would have if a Republican had done it.
This could be the equivalent of a Watergate, if investigated thoroughly.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
Last edited by Airbornelawyer; 07-20-2004 at 19:16.
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The Reaper is offline
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07-20-2004, 17:52
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#3
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Quote:
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This could be the equivalent of a Watergate, if investigated thoroughly.
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Actually, a similar quote over dinner is what raised my interest level. Is the old "I am not a crook," quote being replaced with "I'm just sloppy."
I understand the implications of the possibility of criminal charges against Berger. What I wonder about are the following scenarios:
1. if investigated far enough back and it was discovered other classified documents went missing during the time Clinton was in office, what would the ramifications be?
2. Did Berger share the content of the classified documents with Kerry, and if so, to what end?
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Pandora is offline
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07-20-2004, 18:00
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#4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Actually, a similar quote over dinner is what raised my interest level. Is the old "I am not a crook," quote being replaced with "I'm just sloppy."
I understand the implications of the possibility of criminal charges against Berger. What I wonder about are the following scenarios:
1. if investigated far enough back and it was discovered other classified documents went missing during the time Clinton was in office, what would the ramifications be?
2. Did Berger share the content of the classified documents with Kerry, and if so, to what end?
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What if he admitted that he took the documents at the behest of one off the Klintons, or Kerry?
Do you think that would make a difference?
IIRC, Nixon went down for the cover-up attempt, not for any knowledge of the break-in.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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07-20-2004, 18:17
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#5
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Inmates Running the Asylum
SON OF A BITCH!
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...0/110408.shtml
Tuesday, July 20, 2004 11:02 a.m. EDT
WSJ: Berger Took Secret 9/11 Docs on Five Occasions
Kerry campaign advisor Sandy Berger removed secret terrorism documents from a 9/11 Commission reading room on no fewer than five occasions, his lawyer Lanny Breuer admitted late Monday night.
Breuer told the Wall Street Journal that his client, who served previously as the Clinton administration's National Security Advisor, inadvertently removed several copies of an after-action report on the foiled 1999 Millennium bomb plot during two separate visits to the top secret facility.
Breuer said also that Berger had deliberately removed handwritten notes that he had taken during three additional visits to the Archives last fall to review classified documents.
Mr. Breuer said removing those notes was a violation of National Archives policy, and that Mr. Berger regretted the action. "He knew it was a technical violation, and he admits that it was an error in judgment."
But according to New York civil rights lawyer Ron Kuby, Berger's decision to remove his notes wasn't just a "technical violation."
"You're not permitted to remove anything from that room - period," he said Tuesday morning. "And that means even your notes. If you're taking notes about classified information, those notes are now classified. They're placed in a secure area. You can have access to them only while being viewed by a security officer. Nothing gets removed."
Even if Berger had only removed his personal notes on classified material, it would still be a crime, said Kuby, who learned about classified reading room procedures during his own involvement in the trial of the 1993 World Trade Center bombers.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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07-20-2004, 18:22
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#6
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Quote:
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What if he admitted that he took the documents at the behest of one off the Klintons, or Kerry?
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Exactly the type of question that should be "thoroughly investigated."
The documents that weren't recovered sound as if they would have been the most valuable to have disappear for Clinton and the others the most useful for Kerry.
Seems as if Clinton has a prior history of leniency when it comes to breach of protocol in handling classified documents:
(quoted from NYT article on Berger )
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Before that, John Deutch, a former C.I.A. director, became the subject of an embarrassing inquiry into whether he had downloaded classified intelligence documents to an unsecured personal computer that he used to gain access to Internet sites. On his final day in office, President Clinton pardoned Mr. Deutch, who was in the midst of negotiating a plea agreement with prosecutors on charges stemming from the accusations.
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As well, I am reading various articles, and while it does seem Berger is admitting he inadvertently took documents, the disparity between the Archive staff's version that he stuffed the documents in his clothing and Berger's "admission" that the documents got mixed in with a selection of documents to read later and shoved in his portfolio is a fairly large gap in a description of what really occurred.
Quote:
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IIRC, Nixon went down for the cover-up attempt, not for any knowledge of the break-in.
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Wonder if that will be an apt analogy in this case.
Last edited by Pandora; 07-20-2004 at 18:26.
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07-20-2004, 18:55
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#7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pandora
Wonder if that will be an apt analogy in this case.
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Whatever personal satisfaction I would derive from that is secondary to thoroughly investigating what he did, when he did it and for who.
They will have to answer for themselves.
Wouldn't it be great to discover that Slick Willy had recorders in the Oval Office, ala Nixon?
I would LOVE for America to hear the conversations that took place in there.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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07-20-2004, 18:59
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#8
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Hornet Nest Poker
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Quote:
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Wouldn't it be great to discover that Slick Willy had recorders in the Oval Office, ala Nixon?
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Wouldn't it be even better to find out Bill and the Missus had secret recorders?
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Pandora is offline
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07-20-2004, 19:17
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#9
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Moderator
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affect... effect.... a pet peeve of mine 
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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07-20-2004, 19:28
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#10
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Thank you, Sir. I always pause over affect & effect and have the same pet peeve with use of their, there and they're.
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Pandora is offline
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07-20-2004, 19:31
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#11
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Moderator
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Being called sir is even more of a peeve of mine 
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Airbornelawyer is offline
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07-20-2004, 19:32
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#12
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
Being called sir is even more of a peeve of mine
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Roger that Sir!
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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07-29-2004, 14:40
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#13
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Quiet Professional
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Gee, I wonder what would happen if I removed classified documents from work and was discovered? Ain't equal treatment under the law grand?
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Razor is offline
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