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Old 07-16-2004, 19:16   #1
Guy
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Red face Halliburton/KBR...lol

Making money is one thing...greed is another!

Trucks Made to Drive Without Cargo in Dangerous Areas of Iraq.

Byline: Seth Borenstein

"May 23--WASHINGTON -- Empty flatbed trucks crisscrossed Iraq more than 100 times as their drivers and the soldiers who guarded them dodged bullets, bricks and homemade bombs.

Twelve current and former truckers who regularly made the 300-mile re-supply run from Camp Cedar in southern Iraq to Camp Anaconda near Baghdad told Knight Ridder that they risked their lives driving empty trucks while their employer, a subsidiary of Halliburton Inc., billed the government for hauling what they derisively called "sailboat fuel."


Now watch the Democrats accuse the VP of something.
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Old 07-17-2004, 18:28   #2
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Could it be that they hauled something in and there's nothing to haul out? Hauling empty, called dead heading, isn't unknown, even in the US.
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Old 07-17-2004, 19:22   #3
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Deadheading can happen both ways (the trip in and the trip back out) if there is poor planning - which happens. It ain't for the trucker to ask why - just drive.
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Old 07-17-2004, 19:29   #4
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and I would imagine "valuable" cargo could help be protected by using multiple/simultaneous runs out of the same location in different directions to create confusion for the would be interceptors.

Last edited by Sacamuelas; 07-17-2004 at 20:59.
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Old 07-17-2004, 20:57   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sweetbriar
It ain't for the trucker to ask why - just drive.
I don't know about that so much. They are among the ones getting kidnapped and blown up I believe.
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Old 07-18-2004, 02:02   #6
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Yes, they are, and that is terrible. Unfortunately, however, when you hire on in that position, the people who determine loads aren't going to be informing you of their reasoning or asking you your opinion very much. The talk of "teamwork" and "important contribution" is for the hiring process and rarely continues on into the work life. This is based on 16 years of observing local truck lines. I really doubt that civilian management, of any company, would alter their behaviour or attitudes just because they are "over there". Strange, but true, IMO.
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Old 07-18-2004, 07:34   #7
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Not to be callous, but every one of the civilian contract drivers in Iraq took the job as a volunteer, and is being compensated in some measure for the risk, almost all are probably making more money there than the Commanding General in theater.

Any time they are scared or think the pay is inadequate for the risk, they can pack their bags and head back to CONUS. If they think they are being asked to drive excessively, imprudently, or unsafely, they can quit.

Our people in uniform are neither receiving the same compensation, nor can they leave when the going is tough and they get scared. They are also subject to the vagarities of their leaders, for a heck of a lot less money.

Just my .02.

TR
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Old 07-18-2004, 07:39   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sweetbriar
Yes, they are, and that is terrible. Unfortunately, however, when you hire on in that position, the people who determine loads aren't going to be informing you of their reasoning or asking you your opinion very much. The talk of "teamwork" and "important contribution" is for the hiring process and rarely continues on into the work life. This is based on 16 years of observing local truck lines. I really doubt that civilian management, of any company, would alter their behaviour or attitudes just because they are "over there". Strange, but true, IMO.
I know one of the Halliburton Security Managers personally, I can assure you that they have altered their attitudes several times and have learned to be relatively flexible in high risk environments. I saw them knowingly lose a job once in order to follow the established procedures for convoy movements. Of course as soon as The People were informed of what had happened, The People took the appropriate steps to remedy the situation and take the job away from those Fren...I mean the competition and give it to the Americ...I mean the rightful contractor.

You are beginning to sound suspiciously like bourgeoisie management. The People, and more importantly, The People's Medic will be watching you...
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He knows only The Cause.

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Old 07-18-2004, 07:43   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
Not to be callous, but every one of the civilian contract drivers in Iraq took the job as a volunteer, and is being compensated in some measure for the risk, almost all are probably making more money there than the Commanding General in theater.

Any time they are scared or think the pay is inadequate for the risk, they can pack their bags and head back to CONUS. If they think they are being asked to drive excessively, imprudently, or unsafely, they can quit.

Our people in uniform are neither receiving the same compensation, nor can they leave when the going is tough and they get scared. They are also subject to the vagarities of their leaders, for a heck of a lot less money.

Just my .02.

TR
Agreed in principle. I would add that soldiers are better able to understand the risk and most are capable of fighting back. Military FP measures are usually light years ahead of civilian measures. I would venture to guess that if you let the Good Ol' Boys carry and harden their own trucks, there would be a significant change in the results very rapidly.
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Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.

Still want to quit?
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Old 07-18-2004, 07:56   #10
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So then we are in agreement! They had to alter their attitudes several times and learn to be flexible - things that require a conscious and deliberate change to how they would have run things originally. I don't mean to imply that they want to be indifferent to their drivers' safety, but as The Reaper pointed out, most feel that they are being compensated monetarily for the hazards so they should not also be brought into the decision-making process (a form of compensation) as well. The driver signs on for it, so if he doesn't like it he can leave.

I'm from the right-to-work South. I have pretty much the same attitude, although that doesn't mean I don't notice the results. "Don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon."
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Old 07-18-2004, 08:11   #11
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Do you think that Halliburton and its subsidiaries are embezzling?

Solid
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Old 07-18-2004, 08:32   #12
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Wouldn't surprise me anymore.
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Old 07-18-2004, 08:52   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solid
Do you think that Halliburton and its subsidiaries are embezzling?

Solid
Embezzlement is illegal. Profiteering is not.

I think they are looking to maximize their profits legally, as any company would.

I suspect that they did the same thing in Bosnia for the Klintons, and heard nothing about it then.

TR
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De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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Old 07-18-2004, 14:46   #14
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I was actually looking at this from a different point-of-view, hence my last sentence in the initial post...

Quote:
Now watch the Democrats accuse the VP of something.
I was watching the news this morning and the commentator mentioned Halliburton and the VP in the same breath.

The VP has sold all of shares in Halliburton yet the media will continue to associate him with anything that Halliburton does wrong.

Don't spend my tax money on incarcerating Martha!
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Old 07-18-2004, 14:48   #15
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Is it possible for the VP to get 'kick back' from Halliburton friends/ex-colleauges?

Theoretically, I mean.

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