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View Poll Results: What was the greatest special operation?
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German assault on Eben Emael, 5/10/40
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8 |
7.21% |
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Italian Manned Torpedo Attack in Alexandria Harbor, 12/19/41
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2 |
1.80% |
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British Raid on St. Nazaire, 3/27-28/42
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1 |
0.90% |
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Mussolini Rescue, 9/12/43
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9 |
8.11% |
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Midget submarine attack on the Tirpitz, 9/22/43
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0 |
0% |
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Ranger Raid on Cabanatuan, 1/30/45
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21 |
18.92% |
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Son Tay Raid, 11/21/70
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27 |
24.32% |
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Entebbe Rescue, 7/4/76
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22 |
19.82% |
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Other (describe below)
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6 |
5.41% |
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I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you
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15 |
13.51% |
07-13-2004, 15:35
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#1
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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Best Special Operation of All Time
I am nearly finished with Spec Ops: Case Studies in Special Operations Warfare: Theory and Practice, by William McRaven. The author analyzes several successful special operations from WWII, Viet Nam and Entebbe and attempts to draw conclusions regarding what makes a special operation successful. Presumably because he wanted to interview participants in the operations, he did not discuss anything pre-WWII.
Some of the operations discussed in the book are the German assault on Eben Emael, the British raid on St. Nazaire, the Son Tay raid, and the Entebbe rescue.
What do you think the greatest special operation in history was? I've included a poll, but I'm sure I've left out some important operations.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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07-13-2004, 16:08
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
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You are focusing on raids.
I think that FID/UW is a better mission to examine.
100 Americans and some support aircraft enabled a Northern Alliance force to defeat a Taliban opponent 10 times their size. I believe that this will go down in history as one of, if not the greatest SOF ops of all time.
On the flip side, 55 American advisors (largely SF) enabled the El Salvadorean government to defeat an externally sponsored insurgency and survive to a peaceful settlement.
Just my .02, Bill McRaven is a good guy and I know him, but I will confess I haven't read his book. Sounds similar to my thesis.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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07-13-2004, 16:28
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#3
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
You are focusing on raids.
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I just used the ones from the book. I guess it is no surprise that a SEAL focused on raids, eh?
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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07-13-2004, 16:31
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#4
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 405
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Entebbe
I gotta go with Entebbe, i don;t know details about the others to make a fair comparison; but even in it's own right it was a work of art.
From the source, then commander of the rescue unit and the only IDF soldier to fall in the raid.
Yoni, RIP.
http://www.yoni.org.il/eng_contents.htm
direct link to details on the raid:
http://www.yoni.org.il/eng_jonathan.htm
Reffering to specwarnet.com:
http://www.specwarnet.com/miscinfo/entebbe.htm
" The rescue at Entebbe is a classic example of a successful special operations. The Israelis used surprise and superior training to overcome their enemies and gain their objectives with a minimum loss of life. It was a logistically difficult mission. Thirty-five commandos in two Landrovers and a Mercedes with four APCs for firepower had to be transported over 2,200 miles and back again with over 100 hostages. The building the hostages were kept in was guarded by seven terrorists and an unknown number of Ugandan soldiers and was reported to be wired with explosives. "
If you have the oppurtunity, see "Operation Thunderbolt" in English.
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hoepoe is offline
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07-13-2004, 16:51
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I just used the ones from the book. I guess it is no surprise that a SEAL focused on raids, eh?
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And people say lawyers can't learn anything on discussion boards. 
I am truly impressed RL. You've come a long way.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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07-13-2004, 17:04
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#6
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
I just used the ones from the book. I guess it is no surprise that a SEAL focused on raids, eh?
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Man has got to go with what he knows. When the only tool you have is a hammer, all problems tend to look like nails.
You have to break out of the Tactical and into the Operational or Strategic level of conflict to have an enduring outcome. Take your thinking up a level or two, as it were.
I will admit that Eben Emael was a key objective, but it could have been laid siege to and taken conventionally. St. Nazaire took the dry dock away from the Nazi Battleships, but the Tirpitz would likely have met the same fate as the Bismarck (or been bombed in port) had it stayed in France. The Son Tay raid improved conditions for the POWs, and may have driven the NV to make additional concessions, but did little to end the war on our terms.
All of the ones you listed had little if any enduring effect. When you have a Spec Op decide a war, then you have significance.
Just my .02.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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07-13-2004, 17:09
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#7
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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Do you gentlemen have a view on the greatest raid, viewed strictly from a tactical perspective?
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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07-13-2004, 17:16
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#8
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 405
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Indeed:
Thirty-five commandos in two Landrovers and a Mercedes with four APCs for firepower had to be transported over 2,200 miles and back again with over 100 hostages. The building the hostages were kept in was guarded by seven terrorists and an unknown number of Ugandan soldiers and was reported to be wired with explosives. "
Keep in mind, any combatants worst enemy was present, lack of intel.
I strongly advise taking the time to read the rescue details on Yoni's site. whether the greatest SO mission or not, this was one hell of a mission; to sneak into a far away land and impersonate the president; rescue the hostages and return with only one loss of life
(of a soldier) is impressive and very gutsy. 9i recall a civilin stood up and was killed too...)
It is because of iron balls like this that Israel stands today.
I don't think one mission can be singled out as "the greatest"....
Hoepoe
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hoepoe is offline
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07-13-2004, 17:21
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#9
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Of the above listed, I would probably pick Skorzeny's rescue of Mussolini as the most significant, as it had the potential to recover an ally and turn the course of a war.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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07-13-2004, 17:35
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#10
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 405
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TR
How are you?
Very interesting indeed and with great consequence.
Skorzeny's biography
A dirty nazi, but indeed a good soldier.
http://auschwitz.dk/skorzeny.htm
Hoepoe
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hoepoe is offline
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07-13-2004, 17:52
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#11
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally posted by hoepoe
TR
How are you?
Very interesting indeed and with great consequence.
Skorzeny's biography
A dirty nazi, but indeed a good soldier.
http://auschwitz.dk/skorzeny.htm
Hoepoe
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Doing well, thanks.
Consequences were not as great as they could have been, but the potential was there.
I think that Skorzeny would have been successful in any army that recognized his nerve and talent and gave him an opportunity.
His loyalty exceeded his humanity and sense of justice though, and his post war record is sullied.
Heck of a warrior, though.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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07-13-2004, 18:37
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
Of the above listed, I would probably pick Skorzeny's rescue of Mussolini as the most significant, as it had the potential to recover an ally and turn the course of a war.
TR
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I agree TR. To me Skorzeny was the ultimate commando. Allied forces deployed mass resources on account of him similar to the effect of SOG on the NVA.
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QRQ 30 is offline
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07-13-2004, 19:23
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#13
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Quiet Professional
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Well, if we're being all strategicalful and what not, I'm going to go with a few:
1. The Doolittle Raid
2. The whole A bomb thing, from R&D through deployment
3. The 'Stan that Reaper was talking about before - I think this is going to have far reaching change for a long time to come. Not to mention that their sucess allowed us to open a 2nd front as soon as conventionals could be deployed.
Raids (from an operator view)
1. Skorzeny's op
2. The Raid (Son Tay) second only because there weren't any prisoners. However in my view as a shooter it was a complete sucess once they opened the cells and exfilled without a loss.
3. Entebbe - 3rd because they lost a future PM of Israel. Yoni was, from all accounts I read, a true warrior.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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07-13-2004, 19:35
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#14
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Well, if we're being all strategicalful and what not, I'm going to go with a few:
1. The Doolittle Raid
2. The whole A bomb thing, from R&D through deployment
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Next thing you know, you're going to be listing tank battles too. LMAO
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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07-13-2004, 19:40
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#15
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Next thing you know, you're going to be listing tank battles too. LMAO
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I am prepared to defend my choices lawyer boy. I just can't do it until Friday. The connection here is too slow.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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