08-29-2009, 06:55
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,585
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"New Chute Means ‘Softer’ Landing for Paratroopers"
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Ubi libertas habitat ibi nostra patria est
I hold it as a principle that the duration of peace is in direct proportion to the slaughter you inflict on the enemy. –Gen. Mikhail Skobelev
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SF-TX is offline
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08-29-2009, 07:58
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,097
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ha ha , just means more shit to carry!!!!
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18C4V is offline
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08-29-2009, 10:56
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Fayetteville NC
Posts: 3,533
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More time hanging for enemy fire, longer opening time so you have to jump higher to stay safe.
Oh yeah, comfort versus safety. 
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Hold Hard guys
Rick B.
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is knowing it is great on a hamburger but not so great sticking one up your ass.
Author - Richard. 
Experience is what you get right after you need it.
Author unknown. 
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longrange1947 is offline
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08-29-2009, 11:06
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#4
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Okinawa Japan
Posts: 74
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I wonder why they decided not to use the SF-10A?
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Sometimes your best isn't good enough. Then you just do what is required to get the job done - HS Wrestling Coach
Things are never as bad as they say they're going to be, until they are, then they're way f'n worse.
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MARSOC0211 is offline
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08-29-2009, 18:03
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARSOC0211
I wonder why they decided not to use the SF-10A?
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Can't do mass tacs with steerable chutes. Bad things happen and people get hurt, badly.
SFC W
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uboat509 is offline
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08-29-2009, 19:42
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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We see lots of OPREPs and FLASH reports for jump injuries with the MC-6s caused by "poor PLFs". Seems there's a learning curve; something to do with downwind landings and high(er) performance canopies.
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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08-29-2009, 20:14
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#7
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Okinawa Japan
Posts: 74
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Ahh..
Makes sense, I wasn't even thinking about the whole mass exit and "sky sharking" issues.
It is kind of humorous how some guys can't seem to grasp the whole "if you have x knots of wind, and you have a canopy that has x knots of drive, then your relative speed is..." They do seem to quickly understand it when they come flying in at 20+ knots
__________________
Sometimes your best isn't good enough. Then you just do what is required to get the job done - HS Wrestling Coach
Things are never as bad as they say they're going to be, until they are, then they're way f'n worse.
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MARSOC0211 is offline
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08-29-2009, 20:24
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#8
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: JBLM
Posts: 1,246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARSOC0211
Makes sense, I wasn't even thinking about the whole mass exit and "sky sharking" issues.
It is kind of humorous how some guys can't seem to grasp the whole "if you have x knots of wind, and you have a canopy that has x knots of drive, then your relative speed is..." They do seem to quickly understand it when they come flying in at 20+ knots |
I explain this to my new Soldiers when they arrive after they got the damn training too.
Simple fact is: most of them see that the SF-10 does in fact move you a good speed and if prevailing winds are right, you can get close to the turn-in point.
Sad fact is: when you fail to make your last correction and face into the wind you make an ass of yourself when you eat turf and tumble closer to the remaining/already completed sticks affording them front row seating.
Lesson learned from this: 18D's appreciate this as they are required to move less distance to poke you where it hurts and tell you how funny it was. Meanwhile the crowd in the background is discussing the best method to mass distro the video in the Team Room/Staff Sections.
Agree with all points above about descent times, and safety vs. expediency to battle.
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"Let the blood of the infantry flow through your veins,or the blood of the infantry will be on your hands."
- GEN John A. Wickham, Jr. speaking on the responsibilities of MI soldiers.
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jbour13 is offline
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08-30-2009, 04:34
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#9
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Quiet Professional (RIP)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Carriere,Ms.
Posts: 6,922
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Have any of you guys jumped the T7?  Thats opening shock!!! 
Big Teddy
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I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver
SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney
SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
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greenberetTFS is offline
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08-30-2009, 06:20
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#10
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Asset
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: TN
Posts: 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenberetTFS
Have any of you guys jumped the T7? Thats opening shock!!!
Big Teddy |
My first 4 qualifying jumps at Benning were T7 out of a C46. Fifth jump was a T10 out of a C-119. A very big difference in opening shock.
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ArtR is offline
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08-30-2009, 08:08
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 5,920
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Some parts of the original design intents seem to have been lost in the sauce in favor of the distraction of dealing with jumper comfort. (just my two cents)
-Slower openings meant you could use a higher jump run speed, and a LOWER drop altitude using the increased forward throw to help inflate the canopy.
-Slower descent rate plus lower altitude, meant the same time in the air as on the older canopies, but less opening force on the jumpers and more controllable landings
-Higher jump run speed made it safer for the A/C because the A/C wouldn't need to decelerate as much prior to showing up over the drop zone, (nothing says easy like a target that slows down as it gets closer) and as well, the A/C wouldn't need to accelerate as much to egress to his return route...
win-win
Unfortunately now the primary concern seems to be creature comforts with less concern about true tactical application. I am sure there were many other design points and parameters that I never read up on, but then again I am a jumper not a designer/tester. Maybe a 'test board' guy would know the real deal.
...or we could just do pay jumps. Just my two cents, Maybe I am wrong.
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Opinions stated in this post are solely those of the author, and in no way reflect the opinions or policies of The Department of Defense, The United States Army, The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, The Screen Actors Guild, The Boy Scouts, The Good, The Bad, or The Ugly. These opinions are provided purely as overly sarcastic social commentary and are not meant to be used for mission planning or navigation.
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Last edited by Box; 08-30-2009 at 08:15.
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Box is offline
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08-30-2009, 12:19
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: 11 miles from Dove Creek, Colorady
Posts: 3,924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uboat509
Can't do mass tacs with steerable chutes. Bad things happen and people get hurt, badly.
SFC W
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Sometimes ya can't even do it with just one team.
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"...But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive."
Shakespeare - Henry V
Lazy Bob Ranch
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Utah Bob is offline
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08-30-2009, 14:56
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#13
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Quiet Professional (RIP)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Carriere,Ms.
Posts: 6,922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtR
My first 4 qualifying jumps at Benning were T7 out of a C46. Fifth jump was a T10 out of a C-119. A very big difference in opening shock.
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ArtR,
I had a buddy from Chicago who was a rigger in the 11th....They had 2 T7's which they let guys use.....I made several jumps and opening shock was a hell of a lot more than the T10....  I got my wings in April of 1955 at Ft.Bragg and it was with T10's and C-119's........ That summer I was a cherry jumper in C Company in the 505 PIR and on Operation "Sagebrush" I jumped a C-47 which was in a trail of "V's" (C-119's,C-88's,C-46's and 47's) over 40+ aircraft and the first and last mass jump I've ever been on....... The sky was full of chutes.......Guy's were walking off canopy's and it was really incredible.....  I'm sure their are guys that were there that had to remember it..... It looked like the invasion of Normandy......
Big Teddy
__________________
I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver
SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney
SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
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greenberetTFS is offline
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08-31-2009, 06:03
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#14
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Asset
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: TN
Posts: 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenberetTFS
ArtR,
I had a buddy from Chicago who was a rigger in the 11th....They had 2 T7's which they let guys use.....I made several jumps and opening shock was a hell of a lot more than the T10.... I got my wings in April of 1955 at Ft.Bragg and it was with T10's and C-119's........ That summer I was a cherry jumper in C Company in the 505 PIR and on Operation "Sagebrush" I jumped a C-47 which was in a trail of "V's" (C-119's,C-88's,C-46's and 47's) over 40+ aircraft and the first and last mass jump I've ever been on....... The sky was full of chutes.......Guy's were walking off canopy's and it was really incredible..... I'm sure their are guys that were there that had to remember it..... It looked like the invasion of Normandy......
Big Teddy |
Teddy, Back in those days your Airborne Divisions were making all kinds of Mass Drops. I made quite a few with the 101st in the late 50's early 60's. The biggest one I ever made was in 1954 with the 11th Abn Div in Colorado, the whole 511th AIR out of C-124's. The 10th Group had a few left over T-7's when I got there in 1955. Some of the riggers were jumping them every now and then until Col Eckman got wind of it,and that was the end of jumping T7's.
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ArtR is offline
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08-31-2009, 19:30
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 333
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My two cents on the jumper comfort issue. As far as being in the air longer, how much longer are we really talking about here? From an altitude of 1000 feet AGL the difference between 19 feet/second and 22 feet/second comes out to roughly seven seconds, and that's calculating for a fully inflated chute at 1000 feet, which we wouldn't have. Now consider some other factors. How many true combat jumps have there been outside of SOCOM units since Panama? I can't think of any. Guys get hurt all the time, sometimes seriously doing training jumps. A lot of commanders do not see the point in getting guys hurt training for a mission they have a very low chance of doing, especially when you consider that it means that those guys are not able to train for the missions that they will go on.
SFC W
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uboat509 is offline
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