Go Back   Professional Soldiers ® > At Ease > General Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-20-2009, 05:56   #1
Richard
Quiet Professional
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
Army Rooting out Problem NCOs

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02

Army Rooting out Problem NCOs
Nancy Montgomery, Stars and Stripes, 17 Aug 2009

The Army is reviewing personnel records of nearly 19,000 noncommissioned officers as it seeks to purge the senior enlisted ranks of underperforming, or even criminal, leaders.

The records are being checked for courts-martial, negative evaluations, failed leadership courses, removals for cause, reprimands and other disciplinary actions incurred since these sergeants made their current ranks. Among the reasons for records of reprimands and disciplinary actions are driving under the influence, sexual harassment charges, drug abuse and alcohol problems.

If such sergeants do not voluntarily retire, they will, for the most part, be discharged within six months.

“We’re trying to target those NCOs who don’t understand by looking in the mirror that they are not what the Army needs,” said Gerald Purcell, a Pentagon personnel expert and retired sergeant major who helped devise and carry out the program. “The time to learn and grow from your mistakes has kind of passed.”

After nearly seven years of suspension, what the Army calls the “Qualitative Management Program” is back, providing a means, the Army says, of ridding the service of marginal leaders. The QMP review applies to all retirement-eligible master sergeants, sergeants major and sergeants first class with 20 to 30 years of service in the regular Army, as well as the active Reserves and National Guard.

Some 19,000 senior noncommissioned officers – 3,000 sergeants major, 9,000 master sergeants and 7,000 sergeants first class – fall within the group to be scrutinized, Purcell said.

It’s unknown how many senior NCOs will see their records flagged and be forced to retire, but Purcell said that if he had to guess, he’d say upwards of 2 percent. That would be nearly 400 sergeants.

“This is a gut-check time for them,” Purcell said. “If their performance or conduct is substandard, it behooves them to submit their retirement.”

All would be honorably discharged and be able to retain their retirement benefits.

This move comes as the war in Iraq appears to be winding down, the U.S. economy remains mired in recession and the Army is having few problems meeting enlistment and re-enlistment goals. Recruitment bonuses have been discontinued and standards have been tightened elsewhere, putting an end, for example, to a program that allowed convicted felons to enlist.

Purcell said the QMP, which used to flag about 200 Soldiers’ files annually, had been discontinued in 2002 because of the need to focus on fighting wars. But he denied that it was being brought back simply because these senior NCOs were now expendable.

Instead, he said, it had become increasingly clear that marginal NCOs who previously would have retired to avoid a QMP were no longer doing so without the program in place.

“We know it because the sergeant major of the Army gets notes about incidents and scenarios with senior leaders, incidents of misconduct,” Purcell said. “It’s become more frequent.”

Asked how senior NCOs could have accrued such demerits as letters of reprimand, Article 15s or, especially, courts-martial, and not already have been discharged, Purcell said that sometimes deference to rank provided an undue protection or leniency.

“A lot of what happens is – ‘move this guy, get him out of here,’ ” Purcell said. “All we’re doing is transferring problems,” he said.

Several NCOs said they’re happy that the QMP is back.

“I think it’s a good process,” said Sgt. Maj. Miguel Rosario, the V Corps sergeant major for personnel in Heidelberg. “It’s a tool that keeps you sharp. It reinstates good order and discipline.”

He added that he did not personally know any marginal NCOs.

“I do understand why we may have kept these guys around the last six years ...,” Rick Haddad, a retired E-8 who last served with the 10th Mountain Division and was medically retired after being severely injured in an Iraq bombing, wrote Stars and Stripes in an e-mail.

But “if you cannot meet minimal standards of conduct and schooling requirements, then you have no place hanging around,” Haddad continued. “Senior NCOs are supposed to be the standard bearers, and young Soldiers need to be surrounded by those who constantly set the right example.”

Sergeants major will be the first group to be notified that their records have been flagged, and they’re subject to being forcibly retired after review and recommendation by a centralized promotions board. The board will meet in October.

Any bureaucratic errors — an Article 15 put in the wrong file, for instance — should be easily resolved, Purcell said. He also said that the program was not going after NCOs whose sole deficiency was an inability to meet weight standards.

“That’s not even something we’re targeting,” he said.

Master sergeants will be notified next, followed by sergeants first class, for which the board is scheduled to meet next spring. NCOs may decline to retire and fight the QMP.

“Let’s take a sergeant major who received a GOLR (general officer letter of reprimand) five years ago but since then has had above-reproach conduct,” Purcell said. That individual could theoretically argue, ‘My mistake should be overridden by my exemplary performance since then.’

“Then it’s up to the board. There’s some risk but that’s a personal choice every Soldier has to make,” Purcell said.

The risk is that if the board rules against a Soldier and puts him on the list for denial of continued service, that Soldier will have only six months to retire once the list is approved or be involuntarily discharged. The list, like that for promotions, will be approved about a month after the board meets. The list is approved by the director of Military Personnel Management.

That means they’d be gone more quickly, and, some might argue, with less dignity.

http://www.military.com/news/article...ESRC=army-a.nl
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)

“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 06:09   #2
glebo
Quiet Professional
 
glebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hope Mills, NC
Posts: 2,811
QMP

Yup....QMP is baaaaack. I guess too many guys are riding the system on the "R.O.A.D" status.

Time to thin out the ranks so folks can move up.
__________________
Out of all the places I've been, this is one of'em....
You haven't lived...until you've almost died...
glebo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 06:10   #3
mac117
Guerrilla
 
mac117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Jersey Shore.
Posts: 133
No wonder they've re-opened the re-call program...

Army Reopens Retiree Recall Program
August 14, 2009
Stars and Stripes|by Leo Shane III
--

WASHINGTON -- Army officials will allow more former soldiers a chance to return to active duty under the retiree recall program in an effort to close gaps in hard-to-fill specialties, service officials announced this week.

In an Army-wide message, Vice Chief of Staff Gen. Peter Chiarelli said restrictions put on the program in March will be rolled back, at least temporarily, "due to the recent approval of a temporary increase in active component end strength."

The program allows soldiers with 20 years of service to reapply in certain high-demand specialties, such as physicians, linguists and chaplains.

Since it began in 2001, nearly 3,000 veterans have passed through the program, and nearly 750 have served in Iraq or Afghanistan. More than 1,000 are currently in the service.

In March, as the Army reached its active-duty end-strength goals, officials announced plans to scale back the program, ending the opportunity for new re-enlistments for most retirees.

But last month Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced plans to increase the Army's active-duty end strength by about 22,000 for the next three years, citing shortfalls in individual units' manpower and staffing.

The change in policy will allow current retirees on duty through the program to apply for a one-year extension at the end of their current tour. It will also open spots for new applicants. Retirees up to 70 years old can apply for a one-year tour, with the chance of renewal, through the program.

However, the service still will not allow accompanied tours for retirees recalled under the program.

Neither the March changes nor the recent adjustments affect reservists who re-entered the service under the program.

Chiarelli's message said priority for the programs will continue to remain "overseas contingency operational requirements and critical specialties."

To apply, eligible retirees must contact Army Human Resources Command.
__________________
Mac

"What they think we aren't.....we are!"
Confederate Bushwhacker 1863
mac117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 07:13   #4
VVVV
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac117 View Post
No wonder they've re-opened the re-call program...

Army Reopens Retiree Recall Program
August 14, 2009
Stars and Stripes|by Leo Shane III


The program allows soldiers with 20 years of service to reapply in certain high-demand specialties, such as physicians, linguists and chaplains.
I really don't see a connection between the two.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 07:56   #5
mac117
Guerrilla
 
mac117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Jersey Shore.
Posts: 133
no kidding.......I was being facetious,.... as Richard says....and so it goes!
__________________
Mac

"What they think we aren't.....we are!"
Confederate Bushwhacker 1863
mac117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 09:21   #6
Utah Bob
Quiet Professional
 
Utah Bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: 11 miles from Dove Creek, Colorady
Posts: 3,924
Okay, when are they going to start on the commissioned ranks?
Methinks there might be one or two deserving of some attention.
__________________
"...But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive."
Shakespeare - Henry V
Lazy Bob Ranch
Utah Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 10:25   #7
Snaquebite
Area Commander
 
Snaquebite's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Raeford, NC
Posts: 3,374
Why does the QMP ever go away? Why isn't it 24/7 - 365 days a year?

Quote:
After nearly seven years of suspension, what the Army calls the “Qualitative Management Program” is back, providing a means, the Army says, of ridding the service of marginal leaders.
.....and I agree this should be "all ranks".
__________________
D-3129 Life

"If one day you decide to know yourself...you'll have to choose the warrior path...You'll reach the darkness of your spirit.... Then, if you overcome your fears....You will know who you are."

"De Oppresso Liber"
Snaquebite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 11:03   #8
greenberetTFS
Quiet Professional (RIP)
 
greenberetTFS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Carriere,Ms.
Posts: 6,922
Retirees up to 70 years old can apply for a one-year tour.............

Gee whiz, I just missed out by only 2 years.....Oh well maybe they'll up it to 75 !!!

Big Teddy
__________________
I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver

SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney

SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
greenberetTFS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 12:29   #9
Dozer523
BANNED USER
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,751
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenberetTFS View Post
Retirees up to 70 years old can apply for a one-year tour.............

Gee whiz, I just missed out by only 2 years.....Oh well maybe they'll up it to 75 !!!

Big Teddy
Teddy! Suck in your tummy a little and we'll all vouch for you! I'd love to be in the unit that gets you!
Dozer523 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2009, 22:20   #10
Guy
Quiet Professional
 
Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,702
Lightbulb Easy fix...

Just require ALL soldiers too conduct some type of patrol outside of base.

"You'll have so many folks quitting, it'll make your head spend!"

Stay safe.
__________________
“It is better to have sheep led by a lion than lions led by a sheep.”

-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 05:26   #11
greenberetTFS
Quiet Professional (RIP)
 
greenberetTFS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Carriere,Ms.
Posts: 6,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozer523 View Post
Teddy! Suck in your tummy a little and we'll all vouch for you! I'd love to be in the unit that gets you!
Thanks Dozer,appreciate the kind words of support...................

Big Teddy
__________________
I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver

SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney

SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
greenberetTFS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 05:36   #12
Richard
Quiet Professional
 
Richard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
Quote:
...and I agree this should be "all ranks".
Who says it isn't? The scope of this particular article just dealt with the NCO issues.

Richard's $.02
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)

“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
Richard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2009, 15:13   #13
incarcerated
Area Commander
 
incarcerated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,557
So, this program has been shelved for seven years (i.e. the Bush Administration), and it comes back to life now under BHO.
Did this program originate with the Clinton Administration? If not, was it emphasized during the Clinton Administration?
What is the virtue of culling Senior NCOs, as opposed to a review of all NCOs? If the program were going to be comprehensive, why would you start there? Do you really have that much deadwood among Senior NCOs?
This sounds like the kind of thing an organization does when it down-sizes.
__________________
“This kind of war, however necessary, is dirty business, first to last.” —T.R. Fehrenbach

“We can trust our doctors to be professional, to minister equally to their patients without regard to their political or religious beliefs. But we can no longer trust our professors to do the same." --David Horowitz
incarcerated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2009, 17:05   #14
Sigaba
Area Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 4,478
In reply to post #14

Source is here. (Notice the wording of the URL.)

Excerpt follows.
Quote:
A resumption

QMP existed before the current wars, and was suspended in 2003 after the partial mobilization of the reserves for the war on terrorism and the launching of a force expansion that added nearly 67,000 soldiers over the following six years.

Before they were suspended, QMP reviews were conducted annually for all staff sergeants and above in conjunction with senior NCO promotion and school selection boards. Because of the pressure to increase the size of the force and support the war effort, Army leaders not only suspended QMP, but also eased recruiting standards, and sharply increased promotion and retention opportunities and incentives.

The previous QMP process was an especially heavy burden on boards because it involved the preparation and review of many thousands of files, sometimes with little to show for the effort. For example, in 2002, the last year the Army conducted a QMP review, promotion and school selection boards screened 60,000 files and identified 78 soldiers for possible denial of service.

Boards were never assigned quotas for this program, nor will they be under the new system.
Sigaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2009, 17:49   #15
Slantwire
Quiet Professional
 
Slantwire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by incarcerated View Post
What is the virtue of culling Senior NCOs, as opposed to a review of all NCOs? If the program were going to be comprehensive, why would you start there? Do you really have that much deadwood among Senior NCOs?
Maybe the thought is that unsatisfactorily junior NCOs and enlisted can simply be encouraged not to re-up (or their re-enlistment can be denied), but a dirtbag senior NCO is harder to get rid of. (Hard enough to require a special program?)

I don't know, it strikes me as odd too, that's just a guess at the intended logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by incarcerated View Post
This sounds like the kind of thing an organization does when it down-sizes.
It does indeed. Weed out the expensive higher grades. The junior folks may still be recoverable, and if not, don't cost as much anyway.
__________________
..-. .. -. .- .-.. .-.. -.-- | .- -. | . -.-. .... --- | .-.-.
Slantwire is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 22:53.



Copyright 2004-2022 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies