California Father Refuses to Take Down Tattered U.S. Flag

**Pete** · 08-05-2009, 14:03

California Father Refuses to Take Down Tattered U.S. Flag

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

"......But Haros, a Vietnam veteran, told his son last September that he'd wave that flag until he comes home from Iraq.

And a promise is a promise.

"I made a promise to him that it won't come down until he's home," Haros told FOXNews.com on Tuesday. "Well, it's still there. I feel if I bring it down and something happens to him … I don't know."......."

Two sides to every story. This is one of them. By the way - the son is back in the States just not home yet.

Me? I would have put up a new quality made nylon flag, made it his son's flag and after he got home put it in a triangular case for him.

echoes · 08-05-2009, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

California Father Refuses to Take Down Tattered U.S. Flag

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

"I made a promise to him that it won't come down until he's home," Haros told FOXNews.com on Tuesday. "Well, it's still there. I feel if I bring it down and something happens to him … I don't know."

Paul Haros is already back on U.S. soil after his second tour in Iraq. He and his dad spoke yesterday when he landed in Wisconsin to undergo medical checks and to relinquish his weapons. But Louis Haros says the flag won't come down until Paul returns to Fresno.

"I told him this flag protected me in Vietnam and I will see that it protects you," said Haros, a former master sergeant in the U.S. Army. "In a normal situation, I would've brought it down a long time ago."

Pete Sir,

What a great story! Honestly. There is a house here in my AO that has flown the same P.O.W. & American Flag on its lawn since I was a kid. I left home for almost ten years, and when I came back, they were still there. I still drive by it all the time, and am in awe.

That is 20+ years, and keep telling myself I should stop, and walk to the door and just say Thank You. But always I am thinking that it would not be appropriate...

???

Holly

**Pete** · 08-05-2009, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by echoes

... There is a house here in my AO that has flown the same P.O.W. & American Flag on its lawn since I was a kid. ....

The same flags or ones that look just like the original?

echoes · 08-05-2009, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

The same flags or ones that look just like the original?

Pete Sir,

I will take a picture of it and post if I am able to. The flags are very worn, and pale, but still in the same place, actually always in the same place, in the front corner on this lawn. They have flown there for as long as I can remember Sir.

Holly

Richard · 08-05-2009, 14:39

Here's what US Code says of respect towards the flag:

Quote:

-CITE-

4 USC Sec. 8 01/05/2009

-EXPCITE-

TITLE 4 - FLAG AND SEAL, SEAT OF GOVERNMENT, AND THE STATES

CHAPTER 1 - THE FLAG

-HEAD-

Sec. 8. Respect for flag

-STATUTE-

No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.

(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.

(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.

(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.

(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

-SOURCE-

(Added Pub. L. 105-225, Sec. 2(a), Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1497.)

-MISC1-

HISTORICAL AND REVISION NOTES

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Revised Source (U.S. Code) Source (Statutes at Large)

Section

--------------------------------------------------------------------

8 36:176. June 22, 1942, ch. 435, Sec.

4, 56 Stat. 379; Dec. 22,

1942, ch. 806, Sec. 4, 56

Stat. 1076; July 7, 1976,

Pub. L. 94-344, (12)-(16),

90 Stat. 812.

http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/f...7++%28american

How many violations of this code can you see every day - advertising, clothing, hats, stickers, etc.

Richard's $.02

echoes · 08-05-2009, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Here's what US Code says of respect towards the flag:

How many violations of this code can you see every day - advertising, clothing, hats, stickers, etc.

Richard's $.02

Richard Sir,

It is kind of a poorer area where the flags I mentioned are on display.

HOWEVER, I will state with all honesty, that no matter what condition the houses surrouding the one I mention were in, this one was up to Full PAR!

Indeed, the lawn is manicured, the edges trimmed, and the paint is not chipped! I will make it a mission to take pictures of the flags for all to see, as they should. This property has kept the flags in good working order, for as long as I can remember.

Holly

**Pete** · 08-05-2009, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

...How many violations of this code can you see every day - advertising, clothing, hats, stickers, etc.......

You're right Rich, nothing to it, it's just a code not a law.

I'm going to start using my flag as a beach towel.

Anything goes.

echoes · 08-05-2009, 15:19

Well, I cannot claim to be smarter than I am, especially when it comes to US Codes.

All I was saying was I knew of a lawn, with flags. They seemed properly displayed to me, an untrained civilian. But none-the-less, they seem to be displayed with honour.

Holly

greenberetTFS · 08-05-2009, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

You're right Rich, nothing to it, it's just a code not a law.

I'm going to start using my flag as a beach towel.

Anything goes.

Pete.

I maybe reading you wrong but I believe your PO about this!!! I also maybe be wrong about this but I see where the dad is coming from.......His son is home now so I think it's a dead issue.....But Pete step back a moment and think about how that man would have felt if his son did get injured or killed,because he did take down that flag...

Big Teddy

**Pete** · 08-05-2009, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

.....But Pete step back a moment and think about how that man would have felt if his son did get injured or killed,because he did take down that flag...

I'm not POed.

But your point is a woulda' coulda' . I'm glad his son got home safe. But what would the dad have felt if he kept the flag up and his son was killed? What if a bad storm came up and blew the flag to pieces leaving only a few tattered shreads on the line. See? We can "what if" the issue all day.

What if the son has a son and 20 years from now he joins the military and goes off to war for a year. Should that same flag be put up for another year's duty on the pole?

At some point the flag needs to be retired and I'd vote for putting it in a case over the fireplace.

Start a new tradition, take the case down once a day, put your hand on it and say a prayer.

But as Rich points out - the Flag Code is only a code, not a law, so everybody do what you want. Don't worry, be happy.

Richard · 08-05-2009, 16:09

I fly a flag 24-7 IAW the USC - I will never allow a flag I fly to get anywhere near the condition of the one in the article and generally go through 3 flags per year - I give my old flags to a local Scout Troop to use in teaching their members how to properly dispose of old flags - I get upset over auto dealers or stores using the US flag as an advertising gimmick to attract 'patriotic' customers - I will not wear flag clothing - the only flag decal on my car is a 3"x5" decal in the lower left corner of the rear window and has no superimposed ad/college logo/radio station ID/etc upon it.

MOO - but this Dad's actions are disrespectful to everything he claims to stand for and for what his son is doing by serving this country - and I'll bet the son has something to say about it when he gets home and finds out.

Richard's $.02

**Pete** · 08-05-2009, 16:22

Just to highjack the thread

http://www.liquidshirts.com/merchant...y_Code=HumorTP

incarcerated · 08-05-2009, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

.... and I'll bet the son has something to say about it when he gets home and finds out.

Richard's $.02

The Fresno area has made more than its fair share of contribution to OIF manpower. Nearby Clovis has lost six young men in Iraq. They are good, solid farm people up there. I wouldn't challenge this parent's personal custom where honoring his son is concerned, especially if it was a first deployment for the family. If this is a wobbly as Mr. Haros gets during his son's deployment, more power to him. He could have done a lot worse, and probably just wants people to know where his kid is and what he's doing. If it were me, I'd have put up a new flag. What I expect will happen is that the kid will come home and see that flag, and say something like, "Jeese, Dad! Why didn't ya put up a better flag?!? Can't have it lookin' like that!" And then Dad will get the message.

Pete,
do they have that TP with anyone else's face on it?

Holly,
I think I've sen that MIA flag you were describing. Does Clint Eastwood live at that house?

Utah Bob · 08-06-2009, 07:54

I go through about 4-5 flags a year here. It gets real windy. I never leave a worn flag up. I'll take it down and have a bare pole until I get a replacement.
I can empathize with the Dad's point of view though.
I think he should have taken the flag down when it got worn out and put it in a case for his son and then used replacement flags.

My Dad gave me a flag when I went to Nam. I got a chance to fly it when I had a HQ Co in the 1st Cav. Some asshole stole it a few years later in Florida.

Richard · 08-06-2009, 08:06

Quote:

My Dad gave me a flag when I went to Nam. I got a chance to fly it when I had a HQ Co in the 1st Cav. Some asshole stole it a few years later in Florida.

Bob - I'm sorry somebody stole your flag - I can appreciate the feelings.

When I was drafted, we received a small US flag and CA state flag upon induction. I kept them with me and had them hanging above my bunk in SEA because we only flew the host nation's flag at the camp. I now have them sealed and stored amongst my momentoes with explanatory notes to be passed on to my sons. I'd be upset if someone took them, too.

Richard's $.02