Russian Subs Patrolling Off East Coast of U.S.

[Richard]

And so it goes...

Richard's $.02

Russian Subs Patrolling Off East Coast of U.S.
Mark Mazzetti and Thom Shanker, NYT, 4 Aug 2009

A pair of nuclear-powered Russian attack submarines has been patrolling off the eastern seaboard of the United States over recent days, a rare mission that has raised concerns inside the Pentagon and intelligence agencies about a more assertive stance by the Russian military.

The episode has echoes of the cold war era, when the United States and the Soviet Union regularly parked submarines off each other’s coasts to steal military secrets, track the movements of their underwater fleets — and be poised for war.

But the collapse of the Soviet Union all but eliminated the ability of the Russian Navy to operate far from home ports, making the current submarine patrols thousands of miles from Russia even more surprising for military officials and defense policy experts.

“I don’t think they’ve put two first-line nuclear subs off the U.S. coast in about 15 years,” said Norman Polmar, a naval historian and expert on submarine warfare.

The submarines are of the Akula class, a counterpart to the Los Angeles class attack subs of the United States Navy, and not one of the larger submarines that can launch intercontinental nuclear missiles.

According to Defense Department officials, one of the Russian submarines remained in international waters on Tuesday about 200 miles off the coast of the United States. The second submarine traveled south in recent days to make a port call in Cuba, according to a senior Defense Department official.

The Pentagon and intelligence officials spoke anonymously to describe the effort to track the Russian submarines, which has not been publicly announced.

The submarine patrols come as Moscow tries to shake off the embarrassment of the latest failed test of the Bulava missile, a long-range weapon that was test fired from a submarine in the Arctic on July 15. The failed missile test was the sixth since 2005, and some experts see Russia’s assertiveness elsewhere as a gambit by the military to prove its continued relevance.

“It’s the military trying to demonstrate that they are still a player in Russian political and economic matters,” said Mr. Polmar.

One of the submarines is the newer Akula II, officials said, which is quieter than the older variant and the most advanced submarine in the Russian fleet. The Akula is capable of carrying torpedoes for attacking other submarines and surface vessels as well as missiles for striking targets on land and at sea.

Defense Department officials declined to speculate on what weapons might be aboard the two submarines.

While the submarines had not taken any provocative action beyond their presence outside territorial waters of the United States, officials expressed wariness over the Kremlin’s motivation for ordering such an unusual mission.

“Any time the Russian Navy does something so out of the ordinary it is cause for worry,” said a senior Defense Department official who has been monitoring reports on the submarines’ activities.

The official said the Navy was able to track the submarines as they made their way through international waters off the American coastline. This can be done from aircraft, ships, underwater sensors or other submarines.

“We’ve known where they were, and we’re not concerned about our ability to track the subs,” the official added. “We’re concerned just because they are there.”

Once among the world’s most powerful forces, the Russian Navy now has very few ships regularly deployed on the open seas. Moscow has contributed a battleship to an international armada searching for Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden and the Indian Ocean.

Another example of how Russia’s navy has sought to display global reach came last year when a flotilla of warships, including the nuclear battle cruiser Peter the Great, sailed for exercises with Venezuela.

The submarine patrols off the East Coast follow Russia’s resumption last year of bomber runs off the coast of Alaska. Russia began sending Tu-95 “Bear” bombers through international air space near Alaska in what was interpreted as a signal of the Kremlin’s unhappiness over decisions by the United States and Europe to recognize Kosovo’s independence, in defiance of Russia.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/wo...er=rss&emc=rss

[Pete]

"......“We’ve known where they were, and we’re not concerned about our ability to track the subs,” the official added. “We’re concerned just because they are there.”........."

Tells me what I need to know.

[Box]

...and the VPOTUS said they would be easy to 'control'

[greenberetTFS]

Why doesn't the MSM report news like this?

Big Teddy

[Kyobanim]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32295197...d_news-europe/

[incarcerated]

Those two boats are just looking for Joe Biden. They have a message for him.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124848246032580581.html

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=24273

[Dozer523]

"Mr. Biden may not like the comparison. But in his willingness to speak the truth about Russia, Mr. Biden reminds us of Dick Cheney."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...&mod=sphere_wd

[incarcerated]

Originally Posted by Dozer523

"Mr. Biden may not like the comparison. But in his willingness to speak the truth about Russia, Mr. Biden reminds us of Dick Cheney."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...&mod=sphere_wd

The WSJ is wrong, unfair, and should apologize to Dick Cheney.

[Richard]

As a guy that grew up during the cold war, and went to basic and AIT learning to counter the soviet threat.... Big deal.

It is for them - just a way for them to say they're still in the game.

Also why is the white house letting the whole world know we are able to track the Russian subs ie our capability?

Olde newes* - they all read Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising and saw The Hunt For Red Oktober.

Richard's $.02

* Reallye olde spelling intentional.

[dac]

Olde newes* - they all read Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising and saw The Hunt For Red Oktober.

I know that as soon as I read this article I imagined the two subs out doing Crazy Ivans and speaking with a Scottish accent.

I don't think it's any big secret to anybody that we track things. I didn't pay much attention to the cold war as an infant so I don't understand why this type of event is treated like a big deal. A) If they are ruffling their feathers to prove to the world that Mother Russia is still in the game why do we even acknowledge it publicly? It seems like giving attention to an unruly child. B) If they are actually doing something hostile wouldn't we keep that secret?

[Richard]

I didn't pay much attention to the cold war as an infant so I don't understand why this type of event is treated like a big deal. A) If they are ruffling their feathers to prove to the world that Mother Russia is still in the game why do we even acknowledge it publicly? It seems like giving attention to an unruly child.

It is in some ways - not always - but to not do so often leads to increasingly aggressive attention-seeking behavior which can 'unexpectedly' go off in directions none of us want to pursue. Maybe you should go back and learn a bit about the Cold War and how dangerous such 'brinkmanship' actually was on occasion.

As far as unruly 'children' - battles over behavior are chosen - situationally, some are worth fighting and some are worth ignoring - there is no set formula - experience helps...and some of us have quite a bit of experience with this 'child's' behavior.

B) If they are actually doing something hostile wouldn't we keep that secret?

Why would you assume we know all that is happening through such open sources?

Richard's $.02

[dac]

Maybe you should go back and learn a bit about the Cold War and how dangerous such 'brinkmanship' actually was on occasion.

That is actually a great idea. After I read your post I sat back and asked myself how I had missed studying the cold war when I had read so much on other wars. I didn't answer though.

Looks like a trip to Barnes & Chernoble is in order.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by dac

....Looks like a trip to Barnes & Chernoble is in order.

A good one to start with

http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-Blu.../dp/006103004X

[incarcerated]

Originally Posted by dac

....I didn't pay much attention to the cold war as an infant....

Don't worry, you'll get your chance: we are slowly entering Cold War II as Mother Russia brings her wayward children back into the fold. Keep your eye on Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Poland over the next decade, and Georgia in the short term. While two subs off North America and two Bears in Venezuela eleven months ago do not signal the return of a super-power (Russia is broke and badly damaged from the global economic downturn, and thus unable to project the level of power it once did, for the present), they indicate the trajectory that Putin has placed Russia on. Russia would like to return to its former strength, and is exerting a growing influence around the world.

[LarryW]

Maybe you should go back and learn a bit about the Cold War and how dangerous such 'brinkmanship' actually was on occasion.

Two naval officers, the skipper of a US destroyer and of a Soviet Foxtrot class sub, can be credited with preventing WW3 in October 1962. Each had permission from their respective COC's to destroy their targets, and one was prepared with nuclear torpedoes. Had one of those ships fired on the other we would be living in a much different world right now. Both chose to wait just a bit longer and that made all the difference. Yes sir, "brinkmanship" is very dangerous.