Fort Lewis Shooting

Richard · 07-22-2009, 18:07

Damn

Richard's $.02

Quote:

Man kills woman, shoots self at Army base
USA Today, 22 Jul 2009

A 59-year-old retired soldier shot a female civilian worker to death Wednesday inside a bustling store at the Fort Lewis Army base, then shot and wounded himself, Army officials said.

The man was hospitalized in critical condition with a gunshot wound to his head, Army Maj. Mike Garcia said.

The Army did not release the identity of the man or woman. Officials said the woman was a civilian working at the store and that the 59-year-old man was a retired soldier from Lakewood, Wash.

The relationship between the two wasn't known, nor was a motive for the shootings.

In a release, the Army said military police responded to calls of shots fired at the Fort Lewis Post Exchange around 11:20 a.m. Though the post was busy with a lunchtime crowd, no one else was injured, officials said.

Military police responded within minutes, and the store was evacuated. It remained closed pending the investigation.

The FBI has assumed the lead in the investigation and is collaborating with Fort Lewis authorities as well as U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...hooModule_News

Utah Bob · 07-22-2009, 20:35

By Lewis Kamb, Sanjay Bhatt and Hal Bernton

Seattle Times staff reporters

Related

* Updated Army news release on the PX shooting (PDF)

FORT LEWIS, Pierce County — A man who fatally shot a civilian vendor at Fort Lewis before shooting himself has died, the Army reported.

The man, a 59-year-old retired soldier from Lakewood, Pierce County, died just before 4 p.m. at Madigan Army Medical Center. He retired from the U.S. Army in 1992. His identity is being withheld pending notification of next of kin, according to the Army.

The FBI is investigating the double-shooting which occurred at 11:20 a.m. at the base's main post exchange.

The woman, a civilian vendor at the post exchange, was pronounced dead shortly after noon, officials said.

"Preliminary indications are there are two victims, one man and one woman," said Fort Lewis spokesman Joe Kubistek. "Indications are that the man shot the woman and turned the gun on himself."

Both were taken to Madigan Army Medical Center immediately after the shooting, Kubistek said.

Army officials have not released the identities of either person. The woman was described as a vendor on the base.

Maj. Mike Garcia did not disclose the relationship between the man and woman.

The incident occurred in a corridor outside the main post exchange about 11:20 a.m., Garcia said.

"The military police have secured the scene, and people in the area has been evacuated," Kubistek said shortly after the shootings. "The main post exchange is closed while Fort Lewis law enforcement investigate."

Garcia said during the news conference that the FBI has taken over the investigation.

The post exchange, commonly known as the "PX," is a shopping hub at Fort Lewis that serves military personnel and their dependents.

Fort Lewis, which is located south of Tacoma, is the largest Army installation west of Texas, and now has some 30,000 soldiers stationed there. Some live on post, and others live in surrounding areas.

Garcia said loaded firearms are not allowed to be brought on the base.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...tlewis22m.html

Richard · 07-22-2009, 20:40

Quote:

Garcia said loaded firearms are not allowed to be brought on the base.

Guess somebody shoulda made it a law - or enforced it.

Richard's $.02

JAGO · 07-23-2009, 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Guess somebody shoulda made it a law - or enforced it.

Richard's $.02

There are signs outside post that warn your state concealed carry permit is no good on the installation.

18 USC 930Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous
weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
not more than 1 year, or both.

v/r
phil

Utah Bob · 07-23-2009, 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

Guess somebody shoulda made it a law - or enforced it.

Richard's $.02

Enforcement is the really tricky part.

Trip_Wire (RIP) · 07-23-2009, 11:40

Yes, enforcement of that regulation is tough. Most retirees have a base sticker on their car and are waved through the gate check points, as do active duty people as well. The most that could happen to people with a base sticker, would be that they would be required to show their ID card.

People without a base sticker are required to go to a facility just inside the main gate and provide a reason for entry, as well as their drivers license and proof of insurance and car registration. If they meet the requirements they are issued a temporary gate pass to display in their window. (It is dated.) People are not searched for firearms, etc.

To prevent anybody from coming on base with a loaded firearm would require a search of both the vehicle and the occupants. This is not very practical, given the usual heavy traffic at the main gates of Ft. Lewis or for that matter any large military base.

JAGO · 07-23-2009, 11:56

Agee with all.

Often where the US Code violation comes up on post is where people "forget". Similar to Sen Webb's (D-VA) aide entering the US Capitol w/ 2 handgunds. Cops/MPs investigate something, find a gun, and then you got real problems.

The law itself doesn't stop anything.

RichL025 · 07-23-2009, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip_Wire

Yes, enforcement of that regulation is tough. Most retirees have a base sticker on their car and are waved through the gate check points, as do active duty people as well. The most that could happen to people with a base sticker, would be that they would be required to show their ID card.

....

Actually, we have to show ID cards 24-7, no one is "waved through" (in the 4 years I've been here) and vehicles are randomly stopped & searched as well. Not too often, mind you, but my office-mate got searched last week as an apparently random measure.

The changes will be - those random searches will be a lot more frequent now (well, at least for the near future) and it will be a pain in the ass when I'm coming to the hospital for an emergency and I'm delayed 15 minutes because Barney wants to search my car...

Trip_Wire (RIP) · 07-23-2009, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichL025

Actually, we have to show ID cards 24-7, no one is "waved through" (in the 4 years I've been here) and vehicles are randomly stopped & searched as well. Not too often, mind you, but my office-mate got searched last week as an apparently random measure.

The changes will be - those random searches will be a lot more frequent now (well, at least for the near future) and it will be a pain in the ass when I'm coming to the hospital for an emergency and I'm delayed 15 minutes because Barney wants to search my car...

I suspect you are right, there will be a lot more 'random' searches now since this incident. Their SOPs for access onto the post seem to change fairly frequently with the colored threat level and other factors. I don't go there that often.

The fact is that 'random' searches and/or checking ID cards are VERY unlikely to have stopped this particular incident. As I mentioned the only measure that would prevent such an incident is to search every car and person that enters the post.

This isn't a very practical measure, as you well know it is a very busy post and requiring such searches would result in chaos!

Also, given the level of the Civilian gate people I see there, I doubt if they would find an elephant in a snow storm.

BTW: As a retired LE who carries 24/7 I don't take my weapon on post and that is one of the reasons I don't go there very often.

LongWire · 07-24-2009, 17:11

My vehicle has been searched twice in the last couple of months at the Madigan Gate.

They are random but are more likely just prior to their shift change, when they have more dudes on hand to conduct said searches. Their rules about large knives always seem to kill me, "you know this is supposed to be in your arms room right?" Yeah wow, thanks guy!!!!

RichL025 · 07-24-2009, 17:35

LongWire,

Have you ever been frisked during the search?

LongWire · 07-24-2009, 17:54

No, I do believe that would be out of their scope of authority. They hold no federal authority, and can only detain. If someone were found in violation or suspect of violation, they would detain and call the MP's.

As I understand it.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichL025

LongWire,

Have you ever been frisked during the search?

RichL025 · 07-24-2009, 19:39

Good to know.

Strictly for academic purposes, of course....

longrange1947 · 07-24-2009, 20:41

I have been hit on a number of random searches at Bragg. They look at the weapons and carry on. If you have an ID the search is more of a basic thing than anything else. Now, if you do not have a card, then the search is a bit more thorough. We have had a few guys with CC permits get stopped and they are told to unload and separate ammo from weapon, which is interesting on a motorcycle.

**Peregrino** · 07-24-2009, 22:22

To expound on LR's post - FBNC is fairly straightforward. CC permits are not an excuse for posession. FB regs call for unloaded, cased, seperated, and a legitimate reason for transporting (for CCW holders that means not allowed to "store" weapons in POVs while you're at work), e.g. going hunting or to the range. Mostly common sense. Pope AFB is another case entirely. DO NOT GET CAUGHT ON PAFB WITH A WEAPON OF ANY KIND! My personal experience cost me two hours of "detention", handcuffs, pat down search, confiscation of my weapon, a ride "downtown", $1000.00 of lawyer fees, four months before I got the weapon back, and plenty of ribbing from the guys at work (had to write my own OPREP-3). All because I got stopped for a random search and TOLD the gate guard before they started that I had a weapon (cased and unloaded) in my vehicle. Out of deference for some of our USAF members, I will refrain from expressing my opinion about the experience. Lets just say the lawyer was money well spent. Without him, the AF was prepared to ream me; with him they "apologized" and I eventually got my property back. A thoroughly unpleasant experience mitigated only by the professionalism of a couple of the SPs (whose hands were tied by the stupidity of an A1C who was too immature to exercise discretion or think outside of her checklist; you know - the "gun = terrorist" one). Time to quit before I start ranting.