U.S. Marine special forces?

[dennisw]

Well the Taliban are in for it now. The legendary U.S. Marine special forces have been inserted into Afghanistan. Shouldn't be long now. I hear the 11th man on the team is a 18PR.

U.N. seeks review of special forces in Afghanistan

KABUL (Reuters) – The United Nations has asked NATO defense ministers to review how special forces are deployed in Afghanistan in a bid to reduce civilian casualties that risk jeopardizing Western efforts to stabilize the country.

"I welcome additional troops coming in. But every effort must be made to avoid a situation where more troops and more fighting leads to more civilian casualties and behavior that offends the population," U.N. Special Representative Kai Eide told NATO defense ministers in Brussels by video link from Kabul.

With violence at its worst level since the Taliban's ouster in 2001, Washington is pouring thousands of extra troops into Afghanistan this year.

The reinforcements will more than double troop levels from 32,000 at the end of 2008 to 68,000 by the end of this year. Other Western troops battling the Taliban-led insurgency number about 30,000.

Eide's remarks, made late on Friday, were released by the U.N. mission in Afghanistan on Saturday.

"We cannot eliminate civilian casualties, but we cannot afford mistakes that lead to the loss of civilian lives, the alienation of the population and media headlines month after month that overshadow all the positive trends," he said.

"The political costs are simply disproportionate to the military gains."

Civilian casualties have long been a source of anger for Afghans, worsened last month by U.S. air strikes in western Afghanistan that the Afghan government says killed 140 villagers, including 93 children.

Washington has acknowledged that not all procedures were followed in that bombing. It says it believes 20-35 civilians were among 80-95 people killed, most of them Taliban fighters.

Those air strikes were called in by a unit of U.S. Marine special forces in support of Afghan and U.S. troops who had been ambushed.
U.S. special forces operate across Afghanistan outside of NATO's command structure but report to the same U.S. general that commands NATO troops. The new U.S. and NATO commander, General Stanley McChrystal, is a veteran special forces leader.

"There is an urgent need to review the operations of special forces, including how such operations can be Afghanised," Eide said. He did not elaborate on what he meant by "Afghanised."

"That review should consider all options, and I repeat, all options, and their possible implications. Furthermore we must all make sure that the training of military personnel is such that they are fully aware of Afghan sensitivities."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090613/...istan_forces_1

[MARSOC0211]

Disclaimer- I love my Marines, and yes, we are very good at what we do.

1. Let's get one thing straight: we are Marines, not SF. Our specific lineage is amphibious recon. (the fact that we are not SF is drilled into us on a daily basis, as “no Marine is special”.)

2. With the previous being a postulate, is MARSOC, or the MC ready to conduct SOF mission sets? With the exception of one, maybe two, (SR & DA), the answer is NO.

3. We have a plethora of learning points to study from the experts (ODAs). We have begun a program to glean this experience, but it will take much longer than the allocated two to three weeks of interaction with the Groups.

4. Until SOCOM dictates and appoints the CG and BCs of MARSOC (vice the Commandant of the MC), we will maintain a conventional mindset and mentality; thus, continuing to act like a conventional unit in an asymetric conflict.

5. Point blank, due to our general mentality and leadership, we have shown our asses on multiple occasions. We refuse to conform and reject the basics IOT "prove" that we are ready for the big leagues. Yet, we have not mastered the basics and have a headshed that believes in a five year revolving door for all in MARSOC. This policy will never allow for a proficient MARSOF element. All this does is perpetuate our current problem. Our over zealous nature has presented a conundrum for SOCOM (and SF, since we all get lumped in together). I just hope our SNAFUs/TARFUs don't effect the already tough mission levied out to the ODAs in country.

I am not one to air personal dirty laundry, but this subject has been eating at me for the past two and a half years... Rant over

BTW, I am writing this on a Wii since my computer died on me. Sorry, there is not a spell check option, and I am sure I misspelled a few words. I'll take the ass chewing from TS & TR

[Utah Bob]

Let's get one thing straight: we are Marines, not SF

Of course you are. Reuters said so.

I feel your revolving door pain. SF assignments used to be a career no-no for officers due to the way the Big Army viewed uw types and doctrine.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

Of course you are. Reuters said so.

I feel your revolving door pain. SF assignments used to be a career no-no for officers due to the way the Big Army viewed uw types and doctrine.

Honestly, I do not think that has changed very much. Can you show me a current four-star who previously branched SF and worked his way up through the white side of the Force?

TR

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Honestly, I do not think that has changed very much. Can you show me a current four-star who previously branched SF and worked his way up through the white side of the Force?

TR

I thought things had change since I was in. I guess not.

[MARSOC0211]

The same holds true for all of our Officers, with the exception of the BC, who has a two year tour, all of our Officers have a three year tour here. They are bounced around from billet to billet within the companies and the BN staff. They are then whisked away to DAO, FAO, and other Liaison billets.

I understand the aspect of an outsider looking in on any given situation; there is going to be some type of bias. Whether the "grass is greener", "that is as messed up as a football bat", or a perception of something in the middle, a preconceived notion will exist. With that being said, from personal interaction with ODAs from 3rd, 5th, and 7th Groups over the past five years, I lean more towards the grass being much greener on your side of the fence. Professionalism, structure, and just they way those teams did business impacted my view of SF.

One of the biggest eye openers was the way teams typically stay together for more than one deployment and how members remain within the same group. This is not only logical, but a necessity IOT build tight knit proficient teams and maintains language and AO expertise. SF, through trial and error I'm sure, has built a blueprint from which MARSOC needs adopt certain aspects. The blueprint coupled with a defined mission set, would allow us to begin molding our SOF warriors and structure to best support SOCOM.

With all "new" concepts there is going to be some amount of conflict and strife, but having the humility to accept and implement the lessons learned by our predecessors within the SOF community, would alleviate much heartache.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by Utah Bob

I thought things had change since I was in. I guess not.

UB,

The more things change,the more they stay the same..............

GB TFS

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by MARSOC0211

The same holds true for all of our Officers, with the exception of the BC, who has a two year tour, all of our Officers have a three year tour here. They are bounced around from billet to billet within the companies and the BN staff. They are then whisked away to DAO, FAO, and other Liaison billets.

I understand the aspect of an outsider looking in on any given situation; there is going to be some type of bias. Whether the "grass is greener", "that is as messed up as a football bat", or a perception of something in the middle, a preconceived notion will exist. With that being said, from personal interaction with ODAs from 3rd, 5th, and 7th Groups over the past five years, I lean more towards the grass being much greener on your side of the fence. Professionalism, structure, and just they way those teams did business impacted my view of SF.

One of the biggest eye openers was the way teams typically stay together for more than one deployment and how members remain within the same group. This is not only logical, but a necessity IOT build tight knit proficient teams and maintains language and AO expertise. SF, through trial and error I'm sure, has built a blueprint from which MARSOC needs adopt certain aspects. The blueprint coupled with a defined mission set, would allow us to begin molding our SOF warriors and structure to best support SOCOM.

With all "new" concepts there is going to be some amount of conflict and strife, but having the humility to accept and implement the lessons learned by our predecessors within the SOF community, would alleviate much heartache.

MARSOCO211,

Do you guys get any training from the SEALS?

BG TFS

[MARSOC0211]

Originally Posted by greenberetTFS

MARSOCO211,

Do you guys get any training from the SEALS?

BG TFS

greenberetTFS,

I can only speak for 1st MSOB (West Coast), but the answer is very minimal. We have been sending a number of our guys through the NSW Freefall course in Otay Mesa but that is it. There has been talk about conducting training evolutions with the Teams for the past few years, but that is all it has amounted to...talk. We actually get more interaction and training with the ODAs at Ft Irwin and when we host Dive Ops here at Del Mar.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by MARSOC0211

... We actually get more interaction and training with the ODAs at Ft Irwin and when we host Dive Ops here at Del Mar.

Being on a Dive Team I had far more interaction with the Recon Battalion and Force Recon Company at Camp Lejeune - and Coast Guard - than I ever did with the SEALs.