CCW Holder Kills Armed Robber

**The Reaper** · 03-25-2009, 07:46

Glad that the CCW holder survived, the thug did not, and no bystanders got hurt, but there are probably a lot of lessons to be learned here when the investigation is complete.

TR

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/sout...ry/966133.html

Robber fatally shot in Miami Burger King holdup

A robbery at a Burger King in Miami's Upper East Side neighborhood left one person dead and another seriously injured.
BY ROBERT SAMUELS
rsamuels@MiamiHerald.com

An afternoon shootout at a busy Burger King restaurant in Miami left a potential robber dead and the customer who shot him seriously wounded.

The bloody event unfolded about 4 p.m. Tuesday at the restaurant at Northeast 54th Street and Biscayne Boulevard. It was a time, employees said, when it is usually crowded with schoolchildren and people getting out of work early.

The robber entered wearing a ski mask. He approached a clerk, showed his gun and demanded money, said Miami police spokesman Jeff Giordano.

A customer eyed him and the two started arguing. The customer had a concealed-weapons permit and his gun -- and the two exchanged gunfire.

The robber crumpled to the floor and was pronounced dead at the scene.

The customer, with several gunshot wounds, was in serious but stable condition at Jackson Memorial Hospital's Ryder Trauma Center.

Officers divided witnesses into several groups outside the restaurant to gather information about the incident. Employees waiting to start their shift called friends and family members on their cellphones to pass the time because they were not allowed through the police tape.

''I just hope all my people are OK inside,'' said Cynthia Thomas, who has worked at the Burger King for five years. ``It is scary.''

Around them, drivers on busy Biscayne Boulevard gawked at the scene.

The area is a prime destination for residents in the Upper East Side neighborhood -- featuring Soyka's restaurant, Sushi Siam and Andiamo Pizza.

Five-O · 03-25-2009, 07:52

To the CCW holder...a speedy recovery....stand by for a heavy civil litigation process. To the bad guy...one less festering puss filled sore to worry about...FU.

Dragbag036 · 03-25-2009, 08:29

Recover well...Nice to see some men don't need to wait for the mob mentality.

"You think you're pretty tough, don't ya, son? I never knew a gunslinger yet so tough he lived to celebrate his 35th birthday. I learned one rule about gunslingers. There's always a man faster on the draw than you are, and the more you use a gun, the sooner you're gonna run into that man." Wyatt Earp

Defender968 · 03-25-2009, 10:38

Good on the CCW holder, hope he gets better soon, I have to wonder why he went to words instead of just to his weapon, surprise in that case would be an ally I would not give up. Obviously it would depend on the specifics of exactly how it went down, but the guy's wearing a mask (a crime in and of itself in SC) and then presented a weapon (weather he pointed or not I don't care at this point) and demanded money (now he's gone and done a violent felony) IMHO the CCW holder could have dropped him on the spot at that point, all he had to do was articulate that he was in fear for his life and the life of the cashier and put the perp down. No reason IMO (with the limited facts available) to go heads up, after all if you walk into a fair fight you failed to prepare properly!

FMF DOC · 03-25-2009, 10:50

Good for the CCW holder, and a speedy recovery... My favorite section of American Rifleman I get is the Armed Citizens Report... Has about six or so of these stories in each issue.

perdurabo · 03-25-2009, 16:40

I wasn't there and don't have first-hand information, but I wonder how many innocent people he endangered in front of, and behind him throughout all of this. And why the arguing, first?

Oh well, one less dirtbag to rob/kill/leech-from-in-jail people. Hopes for a speedy recovery.

kgoerz · 03-25-2009, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defender968

Good on the CCW holder, hope he gets better soon, I have to wonder why he went to words instead of just to his weapon, surprise in that case would be an ally I would not give up. Obviously it would depend on the specifics of exactly how it went down, but the guy's wearing a mask (a crime in and of itself in SC) and then presented a weapon (weather he pointed or not I don't care at this point) and demanded money (now he's gone and done a violent felony) IMHO the CCW holder could have dropped him on the spot at that point, all he had to do was articulate that he was in fear for his life and the life of the cashier and put the perp down. No reason IMO (with the limited facts available) to go heads up, after all if you walk into a fair fight you failed to prepare properly!

First, you never know all the facts, especially coming from our Media. Maybe this guy was putting his own life in danger in order to get Innocent civilians away before drawing on a threat with a Weapon. Many instances of LEO'S not shooting first because of the amount of innocent civilians in the area.

Defender968 · 03-25-2009, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgoerz

First, you never know all the facts, especially coming from our Media. Maybe this guy was putting his own life in danger in order to get Innocent civilians away before drawing on a threat with a Weapon. Many instances of LEO'S not shooting first because of the amount of innocent civilians in the area.

I agree with you whole heartedly, that's why I said I wonder why he chose to go that route, I'd like to know more of the specifics. I can envision lots of different scenarios that he could have been facing, most of which I would argue it would be most prudent not to give away your advantage of surprise, however as you said we don't have all the facts here. Again I'm not saying what this guy did was wrong, I'd just like to know the specifics, and if he did choose to put himself in more danger by giving up the element of surprise than he's an even greater hero in my mind than if he had just chosen to drop the guy using the element of surprise.

Either way good on him and I hope he gets better and beats any suits the scumbag’s family brings on him.

greenberetTFS · 03-25-2009, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defender968

I agree with you whole heartedly, that's why I said I wonder why he chose to go that route, I'd like to know more of the specifics. I can envision lots of different scenarios that he could have been facing, most of which I would argue it would be most prudent not to give away your advantage of surprise, however as you said we don't have all the facts here. Again I'm not saying what this guy did was wrong, I'd just like to know the specifics, and if he did choose to put himself in more danger by giving up the element of surprise than he's an even greater hero in my mind than if he had just chosen to drop the guy using the element of surprise.

Either way good on him and I hope he gets better and beats any suits the scumbag’s family brings on him.

The scumbag's family will definitely find a scumbag lawyer who will take the case and end up suing the CCW's family for millions of dollars because that's how it works now in the good old USA.........................

GB TFS

Sten · 03-25-2009, 19:36

... point taken.

AngelsSix · 03-25-2009, 20:06

Two words: Buh-Buy!

I took a couple of my friends to the range for some practice this weekend and told them to do two shot groups. In other words, draw, fire two shots, and see where they end up. As expected, they were shooting low. So I talked about the importance of trigger control and mentioned that when second count in a situation where you will have to pull your weapon and use it, you cannot afford to be jerking the trigger. By the time we finished, they were shooting two holes almost into one another. I won't tell you who taught me that...........

bluebb · 03-25-2009, 22:30

Quote:

I wasn't there and don't have first-hand information, but I wonder how many innocent people he endangered in front of, and behind him throughout all of this. And why the arguing, first?

I am sure this will be edited if not deleted due to the language but here goes...

Shut the up about why the CCW holder did this or did that, I am getting damn tired of people standing on the sidelines spoutting off about what a man did to defend himself and or others. If more people did what this man did this would be a better country.

Blue

PS Edited for profanity, it was up long enough.

JJ_BPK · 03-26-2009, 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluebb

If more people did what this man did this would be a better country.

Blue

Florida, like most carry states has had differing rules of engagement.

At one point you had to avoid an engagement by walking away, before you could pull your weapon.

Depending on when this person had their CCW class,, he could have been using old "legalese" before he thought he could engage. eg: talk the perp out of using his weapon, then go for it..

There has been a change and you can now engage when you reasonably think you or others are in eminent danger.

Here is a plain language explanation of Florida's law,, and it ain't simple..

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/wea...f_defense.html

I suspect this individual was on the fence as to weather the perp was actually going to use the his gun.

It's a shame,, but that's the aclu way...

The Summery:

Quote:

Never display a handgun to gain "leverage" in an argument, even if it isn't loaded or you never intend to use it.
The amount of force that you use to defend yourself must not be excessive under the circumstances.
Never use deadly force in self-defense unless you are afraid that if you don't, you will be killed or seriously injured;
Verbal threats never justify your use of deadly force;
If you think someone has a weapon and will use it unless you kill him, be sure you are right and are not overreacting to the situation.
The law permits you to carry a concealed weapon for self-defense. Carrying a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman or a "good samaritan."
Never carry your concealed weapon into any place where the statute prohibits carrying it.

This is not a complete summary of all the statutes and court opinions on the use of deadly force. Because the concealed weapons statute specifies that concealed weapons are to be used for lawful self-defense, we have not attempted to summarize the body of law on lawful defense of property. This information is not intended as legal advice. Every self-defense case has its own unique set of facts, and it is unwise to try to predict how a particular case would be decided. It is clear, however, that the law protects people who keep their tempers under control and use deadly force only as a last resort.

the squid · 03-26-2009, 07:14

Good riddance.

One less asshole stealing air.

A speedy recovery to the sheepdog citizen.

olddoc · 03-26-2009, 07:32

Good for the CCW holder.

On the political side, if it doesn't exist ( which I will check into ), wouldn't it be nice to have a legal statute which prevents civil legal action by the family of the felon dropped by the CCW holder.

Even if you are deemed innocent by a grand jury, the bills from a civil suit would put a damper on good people preventing this sort of criminal activity.