Golden Knights "Train" Special Forces

[Team Sergeant]

Wow, I sure never knew this, being MFF qualified and all I sure didn't know the Golden Knights "Train" Special Forces personnel.

Must be classified because in my 20 years I've never heard of this occuring on Ft Bragg. I always thought the Golden Knights was an Army Parachute "Club" full of Army females and skydivers with no "real" mission. Boy was I wrong.

Hey Special Forces guys is the Army Golf team also teaching you "real serious" stuff?

Team Sergeant


Thrilling Aerial Show Is Serious Business
CBS Evening News: Golden Knights Parachute Team Has Entertained For 50 Years - But Mission Is Deadly Serious
FORT BRAGG, N.C., March 15, 2009

(CBS) More than 8,500 air shows across 50 states - and some 50 countries.

The U.S. Army's Golden Knights parachute team has spent the last five decades making crowds look straight up, reports CBS News correspondent Kimberly Dozier.

The Golden Knight alums started it all.

"We started without a budget," said founding member Will "Squeak" Charette. "We begged for airplanes and we used our own parachutes."

Now the team field-tests the best gear the Army's got, and they've cleaned up on awards.

The tandem team has jumped with athletes, presidents and even a correspondent or two - including Dozier.

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Read Kimberly Dozier's reporter's notebook on the Golden Knights.

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They are in effect a U.S. Army advertising powerhouse, reaching an estimated audience of 800 million eyeballs a year - some of them a couple times over - through air shows, magazine and newspapers, and of course, television.

And when they're not jumping out of airplanes, they're training the U.S. military's special forces how to get to work in places like Afghanistan, so no one sees them coming.

The parachute team is currently led by Green Beret Colonel Tony Dill.

"Drop in from 35,000 feet and before you know it, you're touching down and knocking on their front door," Dill said. "It's safer to fly than drive."

But jumping with all that gear takes a lot of training.

"It's very difficult to jump combat equipment," Dill said. "Day one they were landing spread out the size of a football field. By the time they left, they all landed within about 30 yards of the dead center."

So it may look like a great show - but this is deadly serious business.

Golden Knight Ben Borger is perfecting the winged suit, which essentially turns him into a human glider. That could carry combat troops even farther behind enemy lines.

"We could put this on with a small amount of equipment and weapons and probably travel ten miles," Borger said.

But this time, they won't be letting anyone know they're coming.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n4866916.shtml

[Richard]

And when they're not jumping out of airplanes, they're training the U.S. military's special forces how to get to work in places like Afghanistan, so no one sees them coming.

The parachute team is currently led by Green Beret Colonel Tony Dill.

I watched the piece on 60 Minutes and would wager that the hi-lighted line was an interpolation by the network when one of their writer's was creating the script for this segment based on (1) their Commander being an 18A, (2) the discussion of HAHO/HALO, and (3) that there are probably a couple of SF MFF Instructors currently on the team. And BTW...how do you train SF in MFF without jumping out of an airplane? It ain't all table drills and tower work. Such is the price one pays for dealing with the MSM.

There have always been a few MFF Instructors who have gone over to the Golden Knights. I replaced a DET CDR in the 7th SFG who had been relieved and then went to be the Golden Knight's CO.

Richard's $.02

[Ret10Echo]

What a bunch of garbage....skydive club...not MFF. Wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Hey Special Forces guys is the Army Golf team also teaching you "real serious" stuff?

Range estimation and terrain-walks......

[Sinister]

NOT a primary mission, but a customer support mission.

As the Boss I deployed AFF Instructors, Tandem Pilots, and free fall videographer/editors to support various, regularly-scheduled "Purple" courses. No need to identify the customers.

Two of four GK Commanders since July 2000 have had Army SMU assignments. All four were/are SF officers (though one was relieved).

[Team Sergeant]

I see the article as "another" attempt to justify their budget and their very existence. IMO they have no mission other than being an Army "skydiving country club".

Having spent 17 years on MFF status I have never witnessed the golden knights teaching anyone but themselves or offering any blade time. I do remember the golden knights taking up all sorts of hours on the wind tunnel and not allowing "combat" soldiers to train on the device.

If I were the CSM of the Army they would be stationed at Ft Polk, La. and not at Ft Bragg where all air assets are hard to come by.... (actually if I were the CSM of the Army the Golden Knights would not exist; they are nothing more than a waste of money and no mission.)

[koz]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I see the article as "another" attempt to justify their budget and their very existence. IMO they have no mission other than being an Army "skydiving country club".

Having spent 17 years on MFF status I have never witnessed the golden knights teaching anyone but themselves or offering any blade time. I do remember the golden knights taking up all sorts of hours on the wind tunnel and not allowing "combat" soldiers to train on the device.

If I were the CSM of the Army they would be stationed at Ft Polk, La. and not at Ft Bragg where all air assets are hard to come by.... (actually if I were the CSM of the Army the Golden Knights would not exist; they are nothing more than a waste of money and no mission.)

THEIR air assets are not hard to come by as they have 3 DH6 Otters (they might have retired one but they've ordered 3 more), 2 F27 Folkers and they used to have a Pilatus Porter PC6.

What I truly don't get are the competition teams - No one really cares about skydiving competition other than skydivers. The demo team and tandem team at least give exposure to the Army.

[Team Sergeant]

A note to add: I seriously doubt the Golden Knights have EVER jumped from 35,000. Someone was blowing smoke up the reporters skirt......

This made me laugh out loud:

And when they're not jumping out of airplanes, they're training the U.S. military's special forces how to get to work in places like Afghanistan, so no one sees them coming.

The parachute team is currently led by Green Beret Colonel Tony Dill.

"Drop in from 35,000 feet and before you know it, you're touching down and knocking on their front door," Dill said. "It's safer to fly than drive."

But jumping with all that gear takes a lot of training.

"It's very difficult to jump combat equipment," Dill said. "Day one they were landing spread out the size of a football field. By the time they left, they all landed within about 30 yards of the dead center."

Again, the golden girls skydiving club don't jump combat equipment and they do not train US Army Special Forces.

I would sure like to ask Colonel Tony Dill a few questions concerning this "interview".

Team Sergeant

[LR27]

Kimberly Dozier, the author of this article, was imbedded in my platoon in Iraq. Long story short, we got hit by a VBIED, lost our company commander and two of her sound crew. She officially died three times before making it to Germany.

Although I think she is great reporter and a huge supporter of the military, she is not knowledgable of SF, as most reporters aren't. As you all know, terms like 'Special Forces' get thrown around a lot in the MSM, and could really mean any type of Special Operations unit or personnel.

[Sinister]

The Knights use the SWC tunnel on an as-available basis (SWC owns and controls the time).

When I commanded we supported the HALO Committee and the Navy with all kinds of blade time. We also moved cargo for Mother Army and helped out pay hurts.

I agree on the competition teams. The public sees the demo teams every weekend from April through around the first week of November at airshows, then the Army-Navy game.

If you have a better Recruiting tool, please tell the Chief of Staff of the Army. Hard to get access to somebody like Tiger Woods or other TV personalities without something to offer.

Recruiting is a thankless mission. I'm glad someone else is doing it.

It's already tough trying to get kids to enlist, and tougher to compete against the Guard and Reserve with free college tuition (let alone the Air Force and Navy's offers for technical training without having to go muddy boots).

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by Sinister

When I commanded we supported the HALO Committee and the Navy with all kinds of blade time. We also moved cargo for Mother Army and helped out pay hurts.

We were on the receiving end of the blade time while I was out in Yuma....the cheetos didn't care much to have to do their first ruck jump out of a Fokker....but they did help us out when we were hurting during some classes......

[The Reaper]

I had a couple of GKs for neighbors, and they helped us out a couple of times when we could not get air assets to support MFF training.

When I was at SWCS, the GKs were pretty far down the priority list for the VWT, well after MFF students and teams.

The Knights I worked with were good soldiers, I have no complaints.

Looks to me like the media did not know the topic, or someone was blowing smoke to them.

TR

[Team Sergeant]

I’m not going to debate the merits of the golden knights as a "recruiting tool" I've no idea how effective tool they are, I can tell you I never heard of them until I was already in Special Forces. (Then again I didn’t know the US Army had a golf team, basketball team, volleyball team, sailing team, soccer team, cycling team, wrestling team, rugby team, etc etc etc etc along with a parachute team. I’m sure they are all great recruiting tools, even though I've never heard of them or knew they existed until I was already in the Army.)

I am sure there have been favors done over the years between SF and the GK’s and I’ll leave it at that.

I take offense when they are connected to US Army Special Forces as "trainers". They do not train Special Forces soldiers, they don’t jump from 35,000 and they don’t make combat equipment jumps.

The Golden Knights work for US Army Recruiting Command, period.

[Pete]

Here is the story of the Golden Knights and their 50 years.

A little different slant, more like the right one, in the local Fayetteville Observer.

http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=321317

[Ret10Echo]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I’m not going to debate the merits of the golden knights as a "recruiting tool" I've no idea how effective tool they are,

I take offense when they are connected to US Army Special Forces as "trainers". They do not train Special Forces soldiers, they don’t jump from 35,000 and they don’t make combat equipment jumps.

The Golden Knights work for US Army Recruiting Command, period.

The connection between the GK and Army Recruiting is about as tight as the Army being a sponsor of NASCAR and NHRA cars. The average person would not assume that the person in the suit is any more than a sandwich-board wearer.....(Just my opinion).

Team guys go there cause they want to skydive....skydivers go there because it is a steady paycheck....is it worth the cost of a fleet of aircraft and all the other assorted facilities and equipment??....I suppose Recruiting Command has to make that call. Any relation to Special Forces is incidental and case-by-case.....and should remain as such. There are some good men who are there and have been there, but it isn't Special Forces/Special Operations. Sometimes people start believing their own hype.

Recruiters are the poor slob stuck in a small office in Chicago trying to move bodies, appease parents and keep the station commander happy. THAT guy 'aint no Rock Star...he's putting boots on the ground.

[SF_BHT]

I remember 3 different Golden Nights that went to MFF school and the ruck kicked their ass and they did not pass. Big difference skydiving and MFF.