Are Libertarians Terrorists?

[ZooKeeper]

I found this interesting...

Report (updated) - TheModernMilitiaMovement.pdf

http://www.kansascity.com/news/break...y/1086524.html

Missouri report on militias, terrorists draws criticism
The Associated Press

COLUMBIA, Mo. | A new document meant to help Missouri law enforcement agencies identify militia members or domestic terrorists has drawn criticism for some of the warning signs mentioned.

The Feb. 20 report called "The Modern Militia Movement" mentions such red flags as political bumper stickers for third-party candidates, such as U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, who ran for president last year; talk of conspiracy theories, such as the plan for a superhighway linking Canada to Mexico; and possession of subversive literature.

"It seems like they want to stifle political thought," said Roger Webb, president of the University of Missouri campus Libertarians. "There are a lot of third parties out there, and none of them express any violence. In fact, if you join the Libertarian Party, one of the things you sign in your membership application is that you don't support violence as a means to any ends."

But state law enforcement officials said the report is being misinterpreted.

Lt. John Hotz of the Missouri State Highway Patrol said the report comes from publicly available, trend data on militias. It was compiled by the Missouri Information Analysis Center, a "fusion center" in Jefferson City that combines resources from the federal Department of Homeland Security and other agencies. The center, which opened in 2005, was set up to collect local intelligence to better combat terrorism and other criminal activity, he said.

"All this is an educational thing," Hotz said of the report. "Troopers have been shot by members of groups, so it's our job to let law enforcement officers know what the trends are in the modern militia movement."

But Tim Neal, a military veteran and delegate to last year's state GOP convention, was shocked by the report's contents.

"I was going down the list and thinking, 'Check, that's me,'" he said. "I'm a Ron Paul supporter, check. I talk about the North American union, check. I've got the 'America: Freedom to Fascism' video loaned out to somebody right now. So that means I'm a domestic terrorist? Because I've got a video about the Federal Reserve?"

Neal, who has a Ron Paul bumper sticker on his car, said the next time he is pulled over by a police officer, he won't know whether it's because he was speeding or because of his political views.

"If a police officer is pulling me over with my family in the car and he sees a bumper sticker on my vehicle that has been specifically identified as one that an extremist would have in their vehicle, the guy is probably going to be pretty apprehensive and not thinking in a rational manner," Neal said. "And this guy's walking up to my vehicle with a gun."

But Hotz said using factors in the report to determine whether someone could be a terrorist is not profiling. He said people who display signs or bumper stickers from third-party groups are not in danger of harassment from police.

"It's giving the makeup of militia members and their political beliefs," Hotz said of the report. "It's not saying that everybody who supports these candidates is involved in a militia. It's not even saying that all militias are bad."

[HOLLiS]

While libertarianism is a interesting philosophy based heavily on lazier fare economics with a free market flare, the devout libertarians reminds me of a religious cult. So far I have not seen any militant aspect from them. People who are militant may have borrowed from them. One of the bases of libertarianism is not non-coercion clause. No one should be forced to do anything, especially by the government. I doubt that these people are libertarians, more just pissed off campers who are looking at ways to justify their insanity.

[doctom54]

If you are a Libertarian or support Ron Paul you may be a domestic terrorist.

If the term had been around in 1776 I think the Loyalist would have labeled everyone who signed the Declaration of Independence a terrorist.
The people who are seeking to labeling someone who isn't mainstream politically as a "terrorist" or any kind of threat are trying remove their opponents legitimacy.

Another reason to not have a bumper sticker on my car and another reason for the secret ballot in this country.

[ZooKeeper]

Originally Posted by HOLLiS

While libertarianism is a interesting philosophy based heavily on lazier fare economics with a free market flare, the devout libertarians reminds me of a religious cult. So far I have not seen any militant aspect from them. People who are militant may have borrowed from them. One of the bases of libertarianism is not non-coercion clause. No one should be forced to do anything, especially by the government. I doubt that these people are libertarians, more just pissed off campers who are looking at ways to justify their insanity.

HOLLiS - Something I'm noticing more and more is the use of the word Libertarian is widely used and/or misused by many to mean different things to suit their use. An example is the Wikipedia page on Libertarianism (look at all the different variants that are represented) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism


After typing the above, I noticed a good quote at the top of the page - "There is no single theory that can be safely identified as the libertarian theory, and probably no single principle or set of principles on which all libertarians can agree."

I need to keep reading.

[JJ_BPK]

Are Libertarians Terrorists?

before I answer this question,,

r u profiling the answers???

[ZooKeeper]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

before I answer this question,,

r u profiling the answers???

hA...no, I was half nervous posting it wondering if one of you or someone else would start profiling me.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by doctom54

Another reason to not have a bumper sticker on my car...

Well, IMO there are bumper stickers...and then there are bumper stickers. I've got four small stickers on the rear window of my Trail Blazer - the three on the driver's side are small flashes for the 1st, 7th, and 10th SFGs and the fourth (on the passenger's side) is for my son who is currently a student at Texas State University. Twice I've been stopped for speeding - asked about the SF decals - and let go with a warning to just slow it down. Many LEOs are vets.

Just another reason to have bumper stickers on my car.

Richard's $.02

[HOLLiS]

Originally Posted by ZooKeeper

After typing the above, I noticed a good quote at the top of the page - "There is no single theory that can be safely identified as the libertarian theory, and probably no single principle or set of principles on which all libertarians can agree."

I need to keep reading.

I think with most philosophies, there usually not one principle that defines it but several. For me, libertarians tend to be narcissistic in their economic approach. As I mentioned about it was a blend of lazier fare and free market thinking. The view attracted the conservatives in the late 60's and early 70's because of the draft. They were able to be anti-communist and not fight in the hot war. The draft was consider government intrusion into the life of free people. Like communism, libertarianism places it faith in the people to do the right thing in the "right" environment. While I believe most people are honest, it is the dishonest ones that will corrupt the Utopian society to become a hellish nightmare.

A person mentioned the only difference in a criminal and a politician, is that the politician is better dressed. Our political system survives because the founding father knew humans can not be trusted. That with out checks and balance keeps the power from being consolidated in the hands of a single person/group, if not we are to doom to live in tyranny. Systems like communism, libertarianism that believe humans will rise to highest level and maintain a pure Utopian world, IMHO, have the seeds of their own destruction built in.




On profiling, I could use a boost in my reputation, if I had one.
(The modern day militias as whole give the name militia a very bad name.)

[2charlie]

While the guy with the Ron Paul sticker gets pulled over as a suspected terrorist, the guy wearing a man dress, a beard, and with stickers of a cresent moon and ak47s drives right on by. Wouldn't want to violate his civil rights by profiling.


-2charlie

[Pete]

Another link with a bit more of the "report" in question.

http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_d...p?q=1237061030

[HOLLiS]

Is there any independent verification that this is happening?

I am out of the loop, but I do know a Sheriff and two chief of police, something does not sound right. I can also ask a friend in ATF, but with previous conversations, I can probably guess the answer.

[steel71]

According to this FEMA instructor (teaching cops and firemen) that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Paul Revere were first terrorist in America. Yeah, that's what King George thought too. It's hard to believe my tax dollars are funding this kind of propaganda.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?...en&emb=0&aq=f#

[sapper]

A few year ago I had the opportunity to go to Incident Response to Terrorist Bombings (IRTB) as well as some other courses at New Mexico Tech. We spent some time with the Israeli Police and Army. They said the biggest difference between us and them is we are looking for weapons not terrorists. They use 'profiling' as a daily diet.

Also, back in the 90's the sheriff's dept in the San Jose, CA. area did a analysis on all accidents in a given year. They tracked everything to the tires on the car, weather, Vic type and so on. They found that certain Asian populations were in many of the accidents. This caused various Asian groups to claim racism. Because of this nationality was no longer kept as part of the accident data. I remember thinking that the LEO's must also dislike Goodyear tires because that brand was also in the majority of the accidents recorded.

If all data is treated as such, then I am ok with it. If the data is accurate and unbiased then I am ok with it. As with all tools, they can be used for good and bad.

Having read the report I am more pissed off about about becoming split up in to the four separate 'States' the russian Prof. talks about. What a crock...

[steel71]

Originally Posted by doctom54

If you are a Libertarian or support Ron Paul you may be a domestic terrorist.

If the term had been around in 1776 I think the Loyalist would have labeled everyone who signed the Declaration of Independence a terrorist.
The people who are seeking to labeling someone who isn't mainstream politically as a "terrorist" or any kind of threat are trying remove their opponents legitimacy.

Another reason to not have a bumper sticker on my car and another reason for the secret ballot in this country.

I think it has something to do with this: (It's in your neck of the woods)

Join Ron Paul, Judge Andrew Napolitano, and Tom Woods in St. Louis, Missouri for our first-ever Campaign for Liberty Regional Conference!


On March 27-29, Campaign for Liberty members will gather at St. Louis' Millennium Hotel to network, learn, and build their local organizations as our grassroots Revolution to reclaim our Republic and restore our Constitution continues.

Throughout this year, Campaign for Liberty will be holding nine regional conferences to help you:

Strengthen your understanding of history and foundational principles necessary to maintain liberty
Persuasively communicate our movement's mission and message
Recruit, train, equip and mobilize an army of informed citizens and build the organizational structure necessary to win
Influence the political process on the local, state, and national level
and much more!

As mentioned above, our speakers will include:

Judge Andrew Napolitano, senior judicial analyst for Fox News, author of Constitutional Chaos: What Happens When the Government Breaks its Own Laws and A Nation of Sheep.

Tom Woods, best-selling author, historian, and Senior Fellow at the Ludwig Von Mises Institute.

Congressman Ron Paul, Honorary Chairman of Campaign for Liberty.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/event/2009stlouis.php

[ZooKeeper]

Originally Posted by steel71

I think it has something to do with this: (It's in your neck of the woods)

Join Ron Paul, Judge Andrew Napolitano, and Tom Woods in St. Louis, Missouri for our first-ever Campaign for Liberty Regional Conference!


On March 27-29, Campaign for Liberty members will gather at St. Louis' Millennium Hotel to network, learn, and build their local organizations as our grassroots Revolution to reclaim our Republic and restore our Constitution continues.

Throughout this year, Campaign for Liberty will be holding nine regional conferences to help you:

Strengthen your understanding of history and foundational principles necessary to maintain liberty
Persuasively communicate our movement's mission and message
Recruit, train, equip and mobilize an army of informed citizens and build the organizational structure necessary to win
Influence the political process on the local, state, and national level
and much more!

As mentioned above, our speakers will include:

Judge Andrew Napolitano, senior judicial analyst for Fox News, author of Constitutional Chaos: What Happens When the Government Breaks its Own Laws and A Nation of Sheep.

Tom Woods, best-selling author, historian, and Senior Fellow at the Ludwig Von Mises Institute.

Congressman Ron Paul, Honorary Chairman of Campaign for Liberty.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/event/2009stlouis.php

steel71, what is your take on this?

Nothing posted there seems threating enough to post a report for the patrol to watch out. Seems like those in charge are using state sources (the report) for political reasons.