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View Poll Results: Can Saudi Arabia be trusted inthe war on terror?
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Yes
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No
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06-21-2004, 18:19
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#1
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,045
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Can the Saudis be trusted in the war on terror?
Saw this on the CNN site and I think the question has merit.
Disscuss?
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Kyobanim is offline
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06-21-2004, 18:26
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
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The Saudi Government, the populace, or the Wahabbi Imams?
Trusted to do what? Support us, act in their own self-interest, take actions against the internal terrorists, what?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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06-21-2004, 18:50
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#3
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
The Saudi Government, the populace, or the Wahabbi Imams?
Trusted to do what? Support us, act in their own self-interest, take actions against the internal terrorists, what?
TR
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What are you, a lawyer or something? 
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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06-21-2004, 18:53
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#4
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JAWBREAKER
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gulf coast
Posts: 1,905
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
What are you, a lawyer or something?
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Damn... you callin' TR a lawyer and Solid calling me a wannabe michael moore in the same day! 
Someone better wake up 140 virgins... because there is about to be a WHOLE LOT of martyr makin' tonight!! LOL haha
Last edited by Sacamuelas; 06-21-2004 at 18:59.
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Sacamuelas is offline
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06-21-2004, 19:10
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
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The Saudi Government, the populace, or the Wahabbi Imams?
Trusted to do what? Support us, act in their own self-interest, take actions against the internal terrorists, what?
TR
TR - Good attempt to clarify the discussion. I'm coming down on the side of the Nay-Sayers. I'm pretty sure we can't trust any of the above to do any more than act in their own short-term self interest. Most reliable analysis I've read leads me to believe that the Saudi Royal Family is within a few years of being overthrown. Their "devil's deal" with the Wahabbi's is going to bite them hard and the average Saudi subject (no I didn't say citizen) isn't enchanted with them either. I don't think they can do any more than they are doing and I would expect that as dissident elements gain ascendancy in the Kingdom's internal affairs (inevitable) they will become less likely to pursue the GWOT with any enthusiasm. BTW - Did you see the piece on CBS this evening where they reported "rumors" that Saudi security forces sympathetic to the terrorists contributed material aid (uniforms, vehicles, etc.) to the group that kidnapped and killed the contractor? Something about having taken him at an "official appearing" roadblock. Vehement denials from the Saudi information people but it sounds plausible. YIS - Peregrino
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Peregrino is offline
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06-21-2004, 19:19
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#6
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
What are you, a lawyer or something?
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You know, I CAN find out where you live, if I need to.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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06-21-2004, 19:21
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#7
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,767
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
You know, I CAN find out where you live, if I need to.
TR
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LMAO
I'll have the bourbon and beer ready for you when you arrive, Samoan counselor.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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06-21-2004, 19:36
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#8
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Quiet Professional
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Peregrino:
Here is what I have gathered:
Saudis officials may have supported the kidnapping of Paul Johnson. Possible.
Paul Johnson may have been killed. Very probable.
The Saudi security forces engaged and killed some group. Probable.
The dead may have included Abdulaziz al-Moqrin. Probable.
Abdulaziz al-Moqrin was responsible for the alleged killing of Johnson. Possible.
Osama Bin Ladin may have ratted out Abdulaziz al-Moqrin due to internal disputes. Unlikely, but possible.
The Saudi populace really does not mind the killings, as long as they are not Saudis or Moslems being killed. Probable.
Al Queda has significant support (public opinion, material, personnel, financial, media) within Saudi Arabia and the region. Definitely.
Saudis rulers are feeling heat from all sides now and will say whatever is convenient to maintain their positions. Definitely.
At least the royal family haven't publicly blamed this one on the Zionists, like they did the 9/11 attacks, the Khobar attacks, and every other piece of misfortune in the last 20 years.
Hey, is it just me, or is Saudi adviser/spokesman Adel al-Jubeir starting to act and sound like Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf? "Who do you belief? Me, or your lying infidel eyes?"
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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06-21-2004, 20:23
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
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TR - Those lying infidel eyes will get you in trouble every time! I have to agree with the probability analysis both for method and conclusions. All things considered it sums everything up pretty well. The balance of the evidence does not favor Saudi stability nor the furtherance of American goals in the region. Too bad the expedient solution is rarely the most effective over the long term. (Would it be too far out of line, unprofessional of me, if I were to entertain myself with fantasies of an act of supreme violence executed at the height of the Hadj?) My question - If we can send hydrogen fuel cells to the moon, why do the Arabs still have us hostage to their oil, "over a barrel" so to speak. Rhetorical question - no response required! As long as oil is a strategic necessity we will continue to be enmeshed in the morass. YIS - Peregrino
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Peregrino is offline
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06-21-2004, 21:00
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peregrino
(Would it be too far out of line, unprofessional of me, if I were to entertain myself with fantasies of an act of supreme violence executed at the height of the Hadj?)
YIS - Peregrino
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Well, now, how would the senseless killing of several thousand innocent people in a horrible fashion by misguided individuals (acting without governmental sanction, but primarily from a single country) attacking an international symbol of the offending nation differ from what happened on 9/11?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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06-21-2004, 21:37
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#11
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DFW Texas Area
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Hmmmmm..... So far you have:
quote:
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Originally posted by The Reaper
You know, I CAN find out where you live, if I need to.
TR
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LMAO
I'll have the bourbon and beer ready for you when you arrive, Samoan counselor.
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And me Lurking in the Shadows !!
As I have told folks before: Be very careful if you wake up in MY JUNGLE !! 
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Martin sends.
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Ambush Master is offline
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06-21-2004, 21:46
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#12
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Quiet Professional
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TR - I stand appropriately chastized for my impure/unworthy thoughts  - But really! and this is the exciting part - you're not thinking big enough. Put retribution on a Biblical scale (you have to be a little "Old Testament" here). At the height of the Hadj there's MILLIONS of them. (Maybe a little hyperbole there - but not much.) And since they're the "silent supporters" in whose name this was all started? What do they teach in COIN 101 about seperating the fish from the sea? D**n unworthy thoughts sneaking in there again. Oh Well  !! Good Night All
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Peregrino is offline
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06-21-2004, 21:51
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DFW Texas Area
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peregrino
TR - I stand appropriately chastized for my impure/unworthy thoughts - But really! and this is the exciting part - you're not thinking big enough. Put retribution on a Biblical scale (you have to be a little "Old Testament" here). At the height of the Hadj there's MILLIONS of them. (Maybe a little hyperbole there - but not much.) And since they're the "silent supporters" in whose name this was all started? What do they teach in COIN 101 about seperating the fish from the sea? D**n unworthy thoughts sneaking in there again. Oh Well!! Good Night All
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Good Point !!
Either they Police their own, or we Police THEM ALL as EQUALS !!!
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Martin sends.
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Ambush Master is offline
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06-21-2004, 23:16
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#14
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Asset
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 23
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I was kind of thinking myself along those lines, overall my plans would be quite similar to what I would have proposed after 9-11. I could come up with a plan that when executed would pretty much keep them out of our hair for centuries. Problem is, we would end up doing much worse things than they have.
One thing we do need to consider is going after families of these guys as retribution. Not saying we should do it, but if we are talking methods that might make them reconsider it should stay on the table. But after seing those pictures from the link TR posted I do feel a touch angry so right now I would probably not be the best voice of moderation.
One one message board, maybe glocktalk, maybe sigforum I saw a proposal that we issue a statement that if they commit one more act of terror against us that we nuke Mecca and Medina. I think that is wholly rediculous as I do know there are good moslems out there(in fact the only one I really know well is very much like an uncle to me), but I can certainly understand the feeling behind that proposal.
What we really need to do in my book is foster those moderate elements of the Saudi populace in order to build a better regime there. I do agree the situation for the current regime is growing more intense. We need to build up something in their "middle class"(whatever there is over there) in order to conteract the extremists. How we do that without making them seem like our tools I do not know. This is probably about the only real constructive thought I am adding to the discussion. The other is basically my emotions speaking.
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colt1911fan is offline
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06-22-2004, 10:55
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#15
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Reaper
At least the royal family haven't publicly blamed this one on the Zionists, like they did the 9/11 attacks, the Khobar attacks, and every other piece of misfortune in the last 20 years.
TR
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Looks like they are:
http://www.truthnews.net/month/2004060101.htm
"But Crown Prince Abdullah, the de facto ruler of the country, was still reaching for dark conspiracy theories on Saturday, blaming Israel and Zionism for the ritual execution.
Speaking to Saudi television, he said, "Zionism is behind it. It has become clear now. It has become clear to us. I don't say, I mean... It is not 100 percent, but 95 percent that the Zionist hands are behind what happened."
Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef concurred, saying that, "Al-Qaida is backed by Israel and Zionism." ..."
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