12-15-2008, 11:21
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: High ground somewhere in the GREAT Pacific Northwest
Posts: 34
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"Automatic" Colt pistol - how rare is it?
I was asked to "restore" this old pistol from a buddy at church. He's a businessman and knows nothing about weapons, so I've been holding onto it (about a year) until I could find someone who's opinion I could trust; since retirering I've become a member of Professional Soldiers. So, what do you think I should do with this weapon? The rear sight is rounded. It's a long pistol 6" with what appears to be plastic pistol grips.
It still has some original blueing (sp?) on it. The serial number is 7623. The upper/left side has stamped in it, " Browning Patent April 20, 1897 Sep 9, 1902" and "Colts Patent Fire Arms Mfg Co.
Hartford, Conn USA" with the Colt symbol stamped in the very rear of the upper.
The upper right side has stamped in it "Automatic Colt", Calibre 28 Rimless Smokeless".
Pretty cool, eh?
It also came with a real leather holster too which has devorative carvings in the leather of what I would guess is a Yucca plant in a pot (SE American Flair).
I know it's valuable (apparently made during thier 3rd production run in 1912 or Jan 1913), but does anyone know how valuable it actually is? If it's a 500 dollar weapon I can tell my buddy to stick it in a gun case up in his closet. If it's a 5000 dollar weapon I'd tell him to get a gun safe but I don't know the cost of antique weapons - 18E not a B! 
Thanks for the help!
DeMo
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Ken "DeMo" DeMaria
CW3 (R), 2/1st SFG(A)
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DeMo180a is offline
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12-15-2008, 11:48
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,805
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Refinishing any antique weapon will seriously degrade its value.
Off the top of my head, it looks like a Colt Sporting Model of 1902, predecessor to the 1911, but I will have to do some research. The caliber is likely .38 ACP, not .28, BTW.
Best place for values is Fjestad's Blue Book or one of the gun auction sites.
TR
yep, as I thought. Colt Sporting 1902, .38 ACP, pic of a NRA Excellent or better below
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-15-2008, 11:54
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#3
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Buckingham, Pa.
Posts: 1,746
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They can be quite valuable if they haven't been refinished and have all the original parts, which this one appears to be.
You can see what a good one goes for by following the attached link and scrolling down to the first for sale ad.
http://www.neaca.com/Colt%20Collector%20Page%20.html
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rubberneck is offline
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12-15-2008, 12:01
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubberneck
They can be quite valuable if they haven't been refinished and have all the original parts, which this one appears to be.
You can see what a good one goes for by following the attached link and scrolling down to the first for sale ad.
http://www.neaca.com/Colt%20Collector%20Page%20.html |
Yep.
Hard to judge condition with the blurry photos, but I would call it NRA Antique Good to Very Good (based on appearance), little original finish, nice patina. Maybe a 60% piece, depending on the mechanicals? A good coat of oil might help stop the rust.
http://www.coltautos.com/default.asp
About 7,000 were made, all between 1902 and 1907. If you PM me the SN, I will tell you what year it was made.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-15-2008, 12:33
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
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NO NOT RESTORE...
As TR and RN stated the 1902 colt can run from 5K to .5K,, It's the pictures that tell the store..
If the reddish hue in the pic is patina and not rust, you do not want ot do anything. the earlier blued finishes turned a soft burnt umber over time,, this is good...
The thing to do is find a local X-spert and ask for an insurance appraisal. If you can't find one have him call his home owners insur and talk to the people who handle art & jewelry.
ALso the holster,, may be worth several hundred if you find the right buyer. Old leather by named makers is highly sought.
If you can put the gun & holster & good provenance in one package, you may double the appraisal..
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JJ_BPK is offline
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12-15-2008, 12:42
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,805
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Good points.
Some of the older gun makers have had so many people request info on their guns that they have hired full-time company historians, and handed them the company records. For a small fee, they will research the gun, tell you all of the particulars, to include when it was made, when it was shipped, and who it was originally sold to.
A letter of authenticity from Colt's, with an original 1902 (look for any boxes, packaging, or extra mags) and holster, would add a significant premium to the value of the pistol.
Regardless, it needs to be secured and insured, as it is of significant worth.
If you refinish it, it will lose a lot of its value.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-18-2008, 23:02
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: High ground somewhere in the GREAT Pacific Northwest
Posts: 34
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Great information
Hey guys,
I'm sorry that it took so long to respond to my own posting but I live in the country (like most of us when we retire) and my internet has been down for days. 
Some great observations, based on my poor pictures. Hey my training ended with wet film (lol).
With my untrained eye, it seems to be in really good shape. The serial number is 7623. I think it's best that I just oil it up and do what with it? What's the best way to store this thing? Is it as simple as a ziplock bag and a plastic gun storage box?
I live in the Pacific NW, do you guys no of anyone reputable I could bring it to for an eval?
I will get some better pics for you guys and take a picture of the holster for you to. That's the least I can do for all your help.
Thanks again.
DeMo
__________________
Ken "DeMo" DeMaria
CW3 (R), 2/1st SFG(A)
demo@ureach.com
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DeMo180a is offline
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12-19-2008, 06:50
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nashville
Posts: 956
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You can call/write this one
This is a retired SF friend of mine and now has his own gun shop and deals with 1911s heavily. He lives in the North West not sure where. I trust him. just shoot him him an E-Mail. I'm sure he'd respond. Blitzzz
AndysCustomGuns@aol.com
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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
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Blitzzz (RIP) is offline
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12-19-2008, 07:57
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMo180a
Hey guys,
I'm sorry that it took so long to respond to my own posting but I live in the country (like most of us when we retire) and my internet has been down for days.
Some great observations, based on my poor pictures. Hey my training ended with wet film (lol).
With my untrained eye, it seems to be in really good shape. The serial number is 7623. I think it's best that I just oil it up and do what with it? What's the best way to store this thing? Is it as simple as a ziplock bag and a plastic gun storage box?
I live in the Pacific NW, do you guys no of anyone reputable I could bring it to for an eval?
I will get some better pics for you guys and take a picture of the holster for you to. That's the least I can do for all your help.
Thanks again.
DeMo
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DO NOT STORE IT IN A ZIPLOC BAG! Go to Brownells and get one of the vapor deposition storage bags. The military has been using the same technology for years (it's part of why we don't have to clean cosmoline off of weapons anymore). There's a commercial version too; unfortunately, I'm at work and don't have access to my references. You've gotten quality advice; I hope your buddy is smart enough to listen when you try to educate him. I would hate to see a valuable piece devalued because the owner didn't understand what he had. Antique firearms are a specialty field I've never gotten into - always figured if you can't (shouldn't) shoot it, why have it.
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A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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12-19-2008, 08:33
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#10
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: 18 yrs upstate NY, 30 yrs South Florida, 20 yrs Conch Republic, now chasing G-Kids in NOVA & UK
Posts: 11,901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrino
DO NOT STORE IT IN A ZIPLOC BAG!
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Same goes for the leather,, don't holster the pistol for storage. The chemicals use to tan leather are corrosive and will damage the metal they come in contact with.
And if your friend won't or can't, call your insurance agent and ask for help with the appraisal.. I am sure Blitzzz's buddy will help,, but a 2nd opinion is gooder...
My $00.0002
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Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh
"May you be a half hour in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead"
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JJ_BPK is offline
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12-19-2008, 09:06
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#11
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fort Carson, CO
Posts: 338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMo180a
Hey guys,
I'm sorry that it took so long to respond to my own posting but I live in the country (like most of us when we retire) and my internet has been down for days.
Some great observations, based on my poor pictures. Hey my training ended with wet film (lol).
With my untrained eye, it seems to be in really good shape. The serial number is 7623. I think it's best that I just oil it up and do what with it? What's the best way to store this thing? Is it as simple as a ziplock bag and a plastic gun storage box?
I live in the Pacific NW, do you guys no of anyone reputable I could bring it to for an eval?
I will get some better pics for you guys and take a picture of the holster for you to. That's the least I can do for all your help.
Thanks again.
DeMo
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There's a place in Burlington,WA called Kesselring's. My Dad-in Law swears by them. Those guys are pretty good.
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Example is better than precept.
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RTK is offline
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12-19-2008, 10:22
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,805
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Chief:
Your pistol was made in late 1904. Happy 104th birthday.
The guys are right, store it in a safe with a dehumidifier, or in a firearm storage bag. Do not leave it in the holster.
Nice piece of history there, and I see no real reason you cannot shoot it, if it checks out with a gunsmith first.
Incidentally, this is not a gunstore sale piece. You will need an auction house that specializes in antique firearms.
Best of luck!
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-19-2008, 10:32
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ_BPK
The earlier blued finishes turned a soft burnt umber over time...
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Spoken like the proud owner of a Crayola 64 crayon box. 
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Razor is offline
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12-19-2008, 10:34
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Georgetown, SC
Posts: 4,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
Spoken like the proud owner of a Crayola 64 crayon box. |
And this year is the 50th anniversary of the Crayola 64 box of crayons! I should have kept that first one!
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ZonieDiver is offline
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12-20-2008, 02:49
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: High ground somewhere in the GREAT Pacific Northwest
Posts: 34
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Great Advice Guys!
Wow. Great advice guys, all of it. I didn't know about the new bags available for longterm storage, and the weapon has been in the holster for God knows how long - so that was being done improperly.
I thought that was a great idea about just asking my insurance company what they think it's value is 'cause I don't know if my buddy would actually do that. I will call both of the contacts you've given me for the value of the weapon too. I think I've met Andy, now that you mention him. I fit 's the same guy he helped a fallen brother of mine - SFC Ngyuen from 1st Group- learn how to gunsmith back in the mid 90's. I'll try him first as I think he's closer to where I live. I'll also call the guy in Burlington 'cause two opinions are better than one, eh?
I'll give you guys an update after the holidays on how it all went, okay?
Merry CHRISTmas!
DeMo
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Ken "DeMo" DeMaria
CW3 (R), 2/1st SFG(A)
demo@ureach.com
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