Controversy Erupts Over School Proposal to Teach Kids to Fight Back Against Gunmen

[Team Sergeant]

Finally!!!!!
You people are on the right track! Do NOT go quietly into that good night!!!

Team Sergeant


Controversy Erupts Over School Proposal to Teach Kids to Fight Back Against Gunmen

A school security expert says a proposal to teach children as young as 10 years old to fight back against a classroom gunman is "scary."

The Georgetown Public Schools in Georgetown, Mass., are considering whether to teach kids to fend off a gunman with backpacks or textbooks as part of a proposal to revamp their "Code Blue" safety policy.

"To put that expectation on young, emotional, scared, frightened children is really a slippery slope," says Kenneth Trump, the president of National School Safety and Security Services. "It has a high risk and higher probability of escalating a situation than it would to neutralize the situation."

Those who support the idea say it may seem extreme, but it could save a child's life.

Georgetown Police Chief James E. Mulligan told FOXNews.com the proposed technique was intended to be a "last ditch" thing to be used in cases where a gunman has been able to thwart police and get inside a classroom alone with students.

The controversy began when the district's school resource officer, Derek Jones, proposed the training in a memo after hearing it had been used in schools in Florida.

"[He] was starting the conversation with us to say, well, ‘Do we want the kids to sit there and literally have the gunman be able to shoot them one at a time? Or do we want to allow instincts to kick in and basically allow them to protect themselves against the threat?'" Carol Jacobs, the district superintendent, told FOXNews.com.

"It might include using a book or hiding behind a backpack or something, some kind of shield."

Jacobs said the proposal to teach kids in fifth grade and up how to ward off armed attackers in a worst-case scenario created some concern among administrators.

"We had immediate discomfort with all of this because it’s not the way we’ve thought about it in the past, and also, we worry a little bit more about the liability of all of this," she said.

Jones' memo was intended only for school officials updating the school safety policy in Georgetown, a coastal community north of Boston, but it was leaked to the media before the district's safety committee could even discuss it, leading to concern among parents.

"A lot of kids come from unsafe places at home, and school is their only haven, you know, and for them to come into school and have to think about that stuff I think can be scary," parent Hope Carter told MyFOXBoston.com.

Barbie Linares, who has three children in the district, including a 10-year-old, said she has confidence in how the school administration deals with proposals.

"If it was going to be implemented, I would hope that it would be implemented in, say, fifth grade and above, or middle school and above," she told FOXNews.com. "I do think that it would be better off with the older kids."

Trump said it makes more sense to train school staff to deal with a gunman.

"We’re asking them to make some quite serious judgments that even trained adults are challenged to make," he said. "I think that’s an unrealistic and highly risky expectation and burden to put on kids."

Current policy, Mulligan said, is on par with districts across the country, allowing police to enter a school in lockdown and engage an attacker "to minimize the harm to children and staff in the school."

Officials say the Georgetown community is safe. The only recent activity was an unfounded bomb threat six months ago that lead to a school evacuation.

The safety committee plans to discuss the Code Blue proposals on Thursday.

"The intention here is just to make sure that we are always on the cutting edge of what we need to do to keep our kids safe and obviously to learn from lessons of tragedies in other places," Jacobs said.

Click here for more from MyFOXBoston.com.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,464848,00.html

[The Reaper]

Saw it and thought the same thing.

Those who would die on their feet fighting rather than on their knees begging.

Look at the sheeple bleating in that story!

TR

[Puertoland]

While I'm sure the majority of faculty and schools will be against children having to defend themselves and possibly..."hurting" a gunman, I'm glad to see schools incorporate something besides hiding under a desk and hope it all goes away.

[GratefulCitizen]

"As young as 10"...

This is the right idea.

Condition them when they are young, and they won't be sheep when they are older.

[greenberetTFS]

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen

"As young as 10"...

This is the right idea.

Condition them when they are young, and they won't be sheep when they are older.

I agree....Makes sense that we teach them early. Hopefully this may save lives.

GB TFS

[Razor]

This came out of MA? Someone pick me up off the floor!

[wanabe1026]

Originally Posted by Razor

This came out of MA? Someone pick me up off the floor!

I thought the same thing. I had to look at it a few times to be sure.

This is great. Most of these shooters when met with any type of resistance will either take their own lives or stop fighting anyway.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by wanabe1026

This is great. Most of these shooters when met with any type of resistance will either take their own lives or stop fighting anyway.

FWIW - MOO - from someone who has some experience with students, faculty, families, and school security (I was a high school principal for 13 years), I disagree with the concept of this for the following reasons:

• It is a false assumption that faculty, families, and school district officials will go along with this idea--but the ambulance chasers will love it.
• Such a scenario might work for a gunman who is bluffing--but how do you tell the difference...and if it is a bluff, they will most likely surrender once they've had their 15 seconds of fame anyway w/o serious injury to anyone.
• Even if a gunman is bluffing, once the rush begins the odds are they'll begin shooting out of fear/loss of control and cause unnecessary casualties to the kids...a scenario which does not play well in the eyes of the community and MSM but does with the ambulance chasers.
• A gunman who enters a school with a suicidal intent to kill is usually looking for already identified targets and will not be deterred by kids running towards him...and would adjust his tactics to the idea that he doesn't have to chase them down or seek them out but that they'll just come to him--
  :. > targets + < work = > assured KIAs & > fame.
• If such a policy is known by the gunman--and it would be announced publicly--a gunman would then more likely use a sniping scenario and attack during playground time or when kids are gaggling around awaiting rides at the end of the school day...a time when they would be less likely to consider the 'fix backpacks and charge' scenario because of a change to any plans/drills they'd practiced. To improvise, adapt, and overcome is not a natural philosophy which is readily embraced by teachers and administrators.
• In general, a good alert system to warn a school and LEA of such an event with a plan that immediately secures occupied areas, reduces movement throughout the campus, reasonably accounts for and secures all personnel on campus, maintains contact among faculty-administration-LEA, prevents unnecessary entry into or exit out of the area until the situation is resolved, and alerts parents of a 'lock down' (reason unspecified) while preventing unmonitored communication to the outside is a "what would a reasonable person do" best practice technique.

Richard's $.02

[echoes]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Those who would die on their feet fighting rather than on their knees begging.
TR

TR is spot on as usual!

Have taught my disabled sister how to defend herself, to the best of her ability, against an attacker. How?

By practice over and over. She knows what to do, and god forbid she is ever faced with that scenario, it may help her.

Children should be educated, IMVHO.

Holly

[Richard]

MOO - and FWIW - REMEMBER - we're not talking about a video game here...and we are talking about (1) kids, (2) teachers, (3) teachers turned administrators, (4) parents of kids (not adults)...and KIDS.

My instructions to my faculty, staff, and students--many who would panic at the slightest perceived threat--was, "If you see me running...start running. If I'm not running, stay put and we'll deal with it."

You'd be surprised at the affect one calm person has on a group of 'sheeple' during a situation...such as '9/11' when I spent the entire day visiting classrooms, talking to faculty and students about what was happening and how our government would react to such a threat. A few parents came and took their kids home, but over 95% trusted us and stayed the entire day. We reasonably increased our security posture and went about the business of teaching, leaving the TV sets on in the classrooms for on-going news and discussions, and dismissed school at the normal time. The schedule for the next couple of days was slightly skewed and our staff psychologist stayed pretty busy dealing with fearful kids, faculty, and families...but within a week we were again primarily going about the business of teaching and leaving the business of protecting our nation to those best suited to doing just that.

IMO - 'fixing backpacks and charging' is neither a good tactic nor a reasonably well thought out option for kids and teachers.

Richard's $.02

[AngelsSix]

I remember the days when kids came to school in pickup trucks that had either a rifle or shotgun in the back window. No one seemed to have an issue with it. Now the knee jerk reaction of a few liberals has caused this problem. The issue here is not guns, it's liberty. If we allowed everyone to carry a firearm on the campus, people might be less likely to carry on an "attack". I am going to get flak about this, but I believe the properly armed citizen is a good deterrent.

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by AngelsSix

I remember the days when kids came to school in pickup trucks that had either a rifle or shotgun in the back window. No one seemed to have an issue with it. Now the knee jerk reaction of a few liberals has caused this problem. The issue here is not guns, it's liberty. If we allowed everyone to carry a firearm on the campus, people might be less likely to carry on an "attack". I am going to get flak about this, but I believe the properly armed citizen is a good deterrent.

I don't think I want ANY of my students carrying. There are very few of the faculty here that I would want anywhere near a firearm. Most would look like Dan Quayle with the RPG launcher when they tried to pick up a weapon. IF an incident occurred, with the faculty we have, there would be dozens of "friendly fire" casualties to add to any caused by the actual "shooter<s>"!

I'm also not sure what I think about the "fix backpacks" scenario. The procedures we currently have in place - basically "hide in place" and wait for reinforcements - are about the best we can do given our "educational plant"! Since there is no exit from my room except the door the "shooter" would enter, once he is in the room I don't think I just want students hiding under their desks. However, given the make-up of my students, I am sure there are many who would know what to try to do with their pencils without further training.

[The Reaper]

My kids have been trained to run for it if possible.

Note that windows and doors are not barriers if you figure out in advance the best way to open them, and a second story drop will cause less damage than 115 grains to the brain.

If you are lined up against the wall and the killer is walking down the line capping people in the head, or clearing classroom after classroom, I suspect that fight or flight are your only viable options.

To teach the kids to hide under their desk and wait their turn, with a killer executing them seems to be a bit too far into the pacifist realm to me.

Most of these cowards perform several mag changes during their sprees. Might as well see how fast he can reload with several people rushing him with whatever they have.

OTOH, a lot more kids will likely die each year from bee stings or snakebites (not to mention motor vehicles) than crazed killers, so what are we doing to educate them about much more serious risks?

TR

[AngelsSix]

IIRC - AZ is listed as open carry, although the sheeple discourage it. Run, fatboy, run.

I think the problem today is that we watch too much hero crap; someone will come and save the day in the end. Save yourself. Become an armed and informed citizen.

While I realize that there are a few idiots out there that can no more hold pencil as defend themselves, I say why hold back those that can?? There are a lot of military folks going back to school these days on college campuses. I see no reason that there could not be a course designed to designate some of these folks able to carry concealed on campus. If we are not going to demonstrate intolerance for the idiots that think that their frustration is paramount to public safety, then we are reaping what we sow.