12-08-2008, 15:17
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Blackwater used grenades on unarmed Iraqis
Blackwater Worldwide security guards opened machine gun fire on innocent, surrendering Iraqis and launched a grenade into a girls' school during a gruesome Baghdad shooting last year, prosecutors said Monday in announcing manslaughter charges against five guards.
A sixth guard involved in the attack cut a plea deal with prosecutors, turned on his former colleagues, and admitting killing at least one Iraqi in the 2007 shooting in Baghdad's Nisoor Square. Seventeen Iraqis were killed in the assault.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/blackwater_prosecution
And so it goes...
Richard's $.02 
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“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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12-08-2008, 15:24
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#2
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Quiet Professional
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IMHO, conventional troops, poorly trained, and poorly led.
TR
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-08-2008, 15:31
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#3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
IMHO, conventional troops, poorly trained, and poorly led.
TR
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Agree. My fears are the MSMs and Congress-critter's tendency to use these situations for their personal 'soapbox smokescreens' as it goes to trial.
Richard's $.02
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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12-08-2008, 15:54
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#4
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Quiet Professional
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Not defending Blackwater, but I seriously doubt any of us were there that day. Don't believe all you read in the papers....
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JimP is offline
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12-09-2008, 06:04
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#5
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 704
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Here we go again...
How many articles have been written, how many accusations have been made, how many US Congressmen have called US troops murderers, how many President elects have accused US forces of "air-raiding" villages/killing innocent women and children, how many US congressmen have likened our troops to Nazi's or compared them to terrorists in the night???? Blackwater is an easy media/insurgent target and I think it's best to reserve judgement until an investigation/court proceedings are completed.
Last edited by Five-O; 12-09-2008 at 07:30.
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Five-O is offline
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12-09-2008, 07:58
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#6
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Quiet Professional
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP
Not defending Blackwater, but I seriously doubt any of us were there that day. Don't believe all you read in the papers....
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Then you would be wrong. One on here was on that very detail.
Team Sergeant
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Team Sergeant is offline
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12-09-2008, 08:47
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Antonio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
IMHO, conventional troops, poorly trained, and poorly led.
TR
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Agree with TR
The guards are a former Marine from West Valley City, Utah; a former Marine from Knoxville, Tenn.; a former Marine from Rochester, N.H.; a former Army sergeant from Sparta, Tenn.; and an Army veteran from Keller, Texas.
IMHO, Blackwater's contracts got so large, they started dropping their standards to fill those contracts. I know I wasn't there, but I'm sorry, no "shake and bake" course on PSD will make you proficent at the job if you have no prior experience. And I doubt their ROE was to shoot up the entire area if you can't indentify where the shooting is coming from.
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csquare is offline
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12-09-2008, 10:53
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#8
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BANNED USER
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-O
How many articles have been written?
How many accusations have been made?
How many US Congressmen have called US troops murderers?
How many President elects have accused US forces of "air-raiding" villages/killing innocent women and children?
How many US Congressmen have likened our troops to Nazi's or compared them to terrorists in the night????
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I don't know. I might have missed it, so . . . You tell me. Especially, the parts about congressmen and President-Elects. Hyperbole? Dramatic effect? doesn't really belong here, no matter how good it sounds, if it's not true.
As for Blackwater (having witnessed some of their antics in Afghanistan) I look forward to the investigation/court proceedings. $0.02
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Dozer523 is offline
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12-09-2008, 11:23
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#9
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Consigliere
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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12-09-2008, 11:28
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#10
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Consigliere
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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12-09-2008, 15:01
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#11
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Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozer523
I don't know. I might have missed it, so . . . You tell me. Especially, the parts about congressmen and President-Elects. Hyperbole? Dramatic effect? doesn't really belong here, no matter how good it sounds, if it's not true.
As for Blackwater (having witnessed some of their antics in Afghanistan) I look forward to the investigation/court proceedings. $0.02
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Dozer you did miss it (them). It's not hyperbole and it's not for dramatic effect though I wish it were. I currently do not have the time to post the specific links to the specific quotes so here is a quick run down of the public officials literally stating and or implying our soldiers are/have committed war crimes----without having a shred proof or just believing whatever the media reports. I am surprised you missed it or maybe you just forgot.
* Sen. John Kerry compared our troops to terrorist's while conducting cordon and searches in Iraq.
* Congresman John Murtha accussed US Maries of cold blooded murder in Haditha
* Pres Elect BHO stated US forces were air-raiding villages and killing innocent civilians in Afghananistan.
* Sen Dick Durbin compared our soldiers to Nazi soldiers. (Regarding GITMO?)
Most of the quotes can no doubt be found on this site.
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Five-O is offline
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12-09-2008, 15:17
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#12
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BANNED USER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-O
Dozer you did miss it (them). I am surprised you missed it or maybe you just forgot.
Most of the quotes can no doubt be found on this site.
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Ouch! I stand corrected. I did miss it, it is worse then I thought.
As for "It's not hyperbole and it's not for dramatic effect though I wish it were." Sincere apologies to you. (FOG-ism?)
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Dozer523 is offline
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12-09-2008, 18:20
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#13
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For the job they had they were absolutely and positively under-trained if trained at all. A one or two week course does not prepare a vanilla field soldier, not already trained in force protection or personal security, to do that job. The closest trained one was the FAST troop and I have worked with them and they do not have that type of training.
I will step on some toes here and say, that most SF, Rangers, SEALs etc are not trained for that role. It is not something you just acquire through the years. I thought I was pretty up on it until I had to do it in the ME. These were young untrained guys with guns and grenades.
As far as not being there, you are right, I was not. As far as knowing what should have happened, yes, I have been there.
Is it their fault? No, not entirely, but I am sure they padded the resume enough to give Blackwater an excuse to hire them and give Blackwater cover.
My 2 cents. Waiting incoming from the people sure they are trained to do that job. 
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longrange1947 is offline
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12-10-2008, 08:09
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#14
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longrange1947
Is it their fault? No, not entirely, but I am sure they padded the resume enough to give Blackwater an excuse to hire them and give Blackwater cover.
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blackwater will/did hire anyone they could, don't you remember the El Sals (I think) they hired? If you can breath blackwater will hire you.
What I want to see is blackwater defending their "made-up" training (in a court of law) they sell to their "contractor" consultants and then send them off.
Hey erik prince, where did you learn "defensive force" in the Navy SEALS, you two-bit moron.
Team Sergeant
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Team Sergeant is offline
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12-10-2008, 14:47
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#15
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Quiet Professional
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Sad story - I sincerely hope for the member here that was on the detail that day that this is a lot of bushwa. If not, he's in a lot of trouble.
As stated, not defending Blackwater, they shot up one of our teams on route Irish one day - Guess the frantic waving of flags and panels was "greek" to them. I just don't trust the press at all - bunch of treasonous fifth-columnists.
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JimP is offline
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