The Ronald Reagan Poll

[Roguish Lawyer]

Rate him, please.

[Ghostrider]

I went with Top 5.

In no particular order, imho:

George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Thomas Jefferson, and Ronald Reagan.

I have some specific criteria by which I grade Presidents, and it is pretty straight-forward.

A. Points for saying great things... George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, Abraham Lincoln all score high in this area (as does F.D. Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt and even Woodrow Wilson).

B. Points for doing great things.... Again, George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, FDR, Abraham Lincoln, score high in this one.

C. Negative points for harm to the nation. Abraham Lincoln, FDR, LBJ, Nixon, Clinton all take hits here.

As a result, I rate Reagan higher than Lincoln or Jefferson (Jefferson's greatest actions for the Republic were before he became President in my opinion), but below Washington.... and about equal with T. Roosevelt. The question becomes where to rank FDR and JFK?

[Roguish Lawyer]

GH:

What did Lincoln do that you object to?

[Radar Rider]

President Reagan is definitely top three. Right now, though, it's a little too close to his time in order to be more definitive.

[rubberneck]

Negative points for harm to the nation. Abraham Lincoln, FDR, LBJ, Nixon, Clinton all take hits here.

If you use this criteria objectively than Reagan has to take a hit for Iran-Contra. While I agree with the aims of the arms for hostages deal it still violated federal law and while Reagan may or may not have had prior knowledge of the deal it happened on his watch and was pulled of by his staff. It still doesn't change my opnion of him (top 5) but you can't hold Clinton liable for a committing perjury in a private lawsuit while ignoring a clear violation of federal law.

Originally posted by rubberneck
If you use this criteria objectively than Reagan has to take a hit for Iran-Contra. While I agree with the aims of the arms for hostages deal it still violated federal law and while Reagan may or may not have had prior knowledge of the deal it happened on his watch and was pulled of by his staff. It still doesn't change my opnion of him (top 5) but you can't hold Clinton liable for a committing perjury in a private lawsuit while ignoring a clear violation of federal law.

How did it harm the nation? I didn't say "against the law", I said "harm the nation". I don't see how Iran-Contra did that. Exactly the opposite in my opinion. Btw, it wasn't so clear a violation. Read the actual investigation.

[rubberneck]

How did it harm the nation? I didn't say "against the law", I said "harm the nation".

I for one think that it is particularlly harmful to the nation when members of the Executive branch (which may or may not have included Reagan and Bush Sr) intentionally break the law. When some in the White House feel they are above laws passed by Congress then it comes dangerously close to upsetting the central them of our government, which is the balance of power. You may differ but it certianly is no better than lying about a BJ and before anyone lables me a lib here I have never once voted for a Democrat.

Btw, it wasn't so clear a violation. Read the actual investigation.

I did many moons ago but because Welsh couldn't say for certian what went on doesn't mean it didn't happen. After all, the final Starr report couldn't find any clear violations even though everyone knew the score.

[Airbornelawyer]

I tried copying several posts to a new thread on the New York Draft Riots, but instead removed them to that thread. RL, GH's answer to your Lincoln query is there.

Thread is here: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...&threadid=2098

That way this can stay a Reagan legacy thread and that topic can take a life of its own.

Dave

[tache18x]

I rated him mediocre, but I really believe he's in the top 15, not 10. I do think he is a great president because of his brash communication skills, and willingness to stand on conservative pricnciples. However, I don't like the fact that he completely ignored the poor, the oppressed, and the destitute. Reagan has this iconic view of what he thinks America should be (which is not all bad), a place like is was in the 40's and 50's. When things were "simpler". A time when blacks, asains, and others would die in war to fight the nazis, but the nazi had a better chance of coming to America and getting a decent meal, job, etc, than a black or asain person. I feel that in the 80's, little was done to address this part of America. The 80's are a time when inner cities feel apart, when drugs and gangs ruled, and I feel that the Reagan admin. ignored these things. Do I believe he was a man of fine moral character and ability? Yes, by all means. Do I think he deep down gave a damn about people who didn't fit into his iconic vision of America? No.

I rate the top 5 as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt, and FDR.

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally posted by tache18x
However, I don't like the fact that he completely ignored the poor, the oppressed, and the destitute.

NDD! Found one for you!

Originally posted by rubberneck

I did many moons ago but because Welsh couldn't say for certian what went on doesn't mean it didn't happen. After all, the final Starr report couldn't find any clear violations even though everyone knew the score.

In other words, you can't say what happened for certain, but you are sure it was some sort of a violation. I think that is generally called prejudice.

[The Reaper]

Originally posted by tache18x
I rated him mediocre, but I really believe he's in the top 15, not 10. I do think he is a great president because of his brash communication skills, and willingness to stand on conservative pricnciples. However, I don't like the fact that he completely ignored the poor, the oppressed, and the destitute. Reagan has this iconic view of what he thinks America should be (which is not all bad), a place like is was in the 40's and 50's. When things were "simpler". A time when blacks, asains, and others would die in war to fight the nazis, but the nazi had a better chance of coming to America and getting a decent meal, job, etc, than a black or asain person. I feel that in the 80's, little was done to address this part of America. The 80's are a time when inner cities feel apart, when drugs and gangs ruled, and I feel that the Reagan admin. ignored these things. Do I believe he was a man of fine moral character and ability? Yes, by all means. Do I think he deep down gave a damn about people who didn't fit into his iconic vision of America? No.

I rate the top 5 as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt, and FDR.

So you are a Sociaist, and believe in redistribution of wealth from the earners to the needy?

You need to work on your grammar and syntax.

TR

[tache18x]

I aoplogize for the grammar mistakes, I typed fast and I should have proofread. I am FAR from a socialist. I'm a lifelong conservative, I volunteered on Bush's 2000 campiagn, and I was chairman of the College Republicans at my school. Although I am a conservative I do not believe in ignoring the poor and downtrodden, I would fight for them, just like anyone else, because they are Americans too. I do not think the way to help the poor is through "giving them money", with no direction. But, I am for helping the poor through useful programs for those who want to help themselves (ie, Pell grants, head start, etc.). I'm not for severe redistibution of wealth, then we'd be like Europe, and that would not be good. In my opinion Reagan ignored the poor, as an American president, you job is not only to tend to the rich and privileged, but also to the poor. We have a responsibility as a society to care about those people, because through institutions like slavery, jim crow, etc, our society has aided in the subjugation of these groups. This dosn't mean welfare or quotas (which I am totally against), this means practical and effective means of helping people. I am all about helping my fellow man, and more importantly my fellow Americans. I believe, just as I think that Reagan did, that Americans are an exceptional group of people.

[Airbornelawyer]

Originally posted by tache18x
I rated him mediocre, but I really believe he's in the top 15, not 10. I do think he is a great president because of his brash communication skills, and willingness to stand on conservative pricnciples. However, I don't like the fact that he completely ignored the poor, the oppressed, and the destitute. Reagan has this iconic view of what he thinks America should be (which is not all bad), a place like is was in the 40's and 50's. When things were "simpler". A time when blacks, asains, and others would die in war to fight the nazis, but the nazi had a better chance of coming to America and getting a decent meal, job, etc, than a black or asain person. I feel that in the 80's, little was done to address this part of America. The 80's are a time when inner cities feel apart, when drugs and gangs ruled, and I feel that the Reagan admin. ignored these things. Do I believe he was a man of fine moral character and ability? Yes, by all means. Do I think he deep down gave a damn about people who didn't fit into his iconic vision of America? No.

I rate the top 5 as George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt, and FDR.

Originally posted by tache18x
I aoplogize for the grammar mistakes, I typed fast and I should have proofread. I am FAR from a socialist. I'm a lifelong conservative, I volunteered on Bush's 2000 campiagn, and I was chairman of the College Republicans at my school. Although I am a conservative I do not believe in ignoring the poor and downtrodden, I would fight for them, just like anyone else, because they are Americans too. I do not think the way to help the poor is through "giving them money", with no direction. But, I am for helping the poor through useful programs for those who want to help themselves (ie, Pell grants, head start, etc.). I'm not for severe redistibution of wealth, then we'd be like Europe, and that would not be good. In my opinion Reagan ignored the poor, as an American president, you job is not only to tend to the rich and privileged, but also to the poor. We have a responsibility as a society to care about those people, because through institutions like slavery, jim crow, etc, our society has aided in the subjugation of these groups. This dosn't mean welfare or quotas (which I am totally against), this means practical and effective means of helping people. I am all about helping my fellow man, and more importantly my fellow Americans. I believe, just as I think that Reagan did, that Americans are an exceptional group of people.

You call yourself a conservative, yet your sheer ignorance of what conservatism means is astounding, and is only compounded by your ignorance of President Reagan's views. And the only thing worse than that is your slanders of the man which come directly from the liberal/left playbook.

"Although I am a conservative I do not believe in ignoring the poor and downtrodden..."? What the hell does that mean? Who the hell are you to insult all the rest of us rich, privileged, bigoted, uncaring conservatives that aren't as enlightened as you?