06-06-2004, 14:34
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#1
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Odense Denmark
Posts: 77
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Rektal infusion
Rektal infusion is a big topic in a danish forum i am in, do you use in when you have no IV IO ect? the question are most for Long range reccon paloon, pj and other spec.obs.
Frank Hansen
look mother my first post
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52bravo is offline
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06-06-2004, 17:08
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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I'm not sure what you are talking about.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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06-06-2004, 17:32
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,534
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It sounds like the ol' IV up the poop chute technique.
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Razor is offline
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06-06-2004, 17:35
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#4
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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If you have fluids, why would you not infuse the normal way? I am unfamiliar with this technique.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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06-06-2004, 17:51
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,530
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NS Only
You can infuse Normal Saline rectally...this technique was widely utilized by the british in the Falklands.
The british military was significantly short qualified medical personnel trained in IV fluid therapy...
The tubing SANS NEEDLE can be placed into the COLON (this means past the rectal vault) through the anus. The "trick" is getting it up there far enough for the fluid to act as more than an enema.
The patient should already be significantly hypovolemic and unconscious, the tubing is wrapped around a finger and slid up into the rectum to the third knuckle as if doing a rectal exam...with the finger still in place and being used as a guide and barrier keeping the anus open, the tubing is slid forward to approximately where the first "Y" port junction is, or 12 inches...whichever comes first.
Digit removed, IV turned on full...
WHY THE HELL would they do something like this???
The function of the large intestine / colon is to absorb water from the slurry that is your fecal sludge...this way you can make little pellets and logs to marvel at and make funny faces when they come out.
If you are dehydrated / hypovolemic, it is thought that these microvilli in the colon will absorb at least SOME of the fluids and assist in your rehydration.
I am not aware of any scientific studies to support their practice...but in theory it makes sense. This WILL make your patient shit his pants though...just like an enema will because it will stimulate the evacuation response.
PA
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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06-06-2004, 17:58
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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I understand the reasoning behind it. So they used it as a compensation method for lack of adequate training.
We don't have that problem. We can teach someone how to do an IV in much less time than it takes to sale from England to Argentina. LOL
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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06-06-2004, 21:00
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#7
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Event Horizon...
Posts: 383
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Re: Rektal infusion
Quote:
Originally posted by 52bravo
Rektal infusion = rectal infusion
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Interesting twist of spelling....
I would like to see evidence that supports this method. Ive administered a few different types of fluid rectaly and never were they retained to the extent that they could support the vascular compartment that I'm aware of. Now medications might be another story ie lactulose enema for a pt with end stage liver disease suffering exacerbation of metabolic encephalopathy (usually from noncompliance).
On the other hand I could take a jr highschooler and teach him or her to do IV starts within a few hours...
ccrn
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ccrn is offline
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06-07-2004, 04:53
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#8
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 215
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x
Last edited by DoctorDoom; 07-29-2013 at 10:11.
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DoctorDoom is offline
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06-07-2004, 07:19
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#9
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Odense Denmark
Posts: 77
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I my selv find, not the best way as menny of the posts says, I my selv use IV or IO, but unit (recon of the home defences) use this rectal( in danish and latin/greak rektal so sorry)infusion.
thay dont have IV or IO equipment(dont get my started on that, i find i stupid and not up to 2004 standart)
i my selv is not from a recon unit, and find the rectal infusion not the best way to go on shock terpi. and i glad that to se that i am not the only one.
and i think that oral infusion, will be the best for them, but thay still go on that that the retal infusion is best.
and yes i am from odense denmark
Frank Hansen
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52bravo is offline
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06-07-2004, 07:43
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#10
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Event Horizon...
Posts: 383
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoctorDoom
Lactulose is a bulk binder and would by definition result in a diarrhea
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Binds with ammonia in the colon. I know what lactulose is Ive had the lovely experience of administering it personaly many times.
And I know what the intent of the original poster was but nice summary I suppose...
Ive never seen fluid resuscitation via colonic route either and for a good reason...it wouldnt work I'm sure. But like I said I would like to see research to support it. Desperate or not if it doesnt work it doesnt work and time could be better spent doing something else-
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ccrn is offline
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06-07-2004, 07:47
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#11
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Odense Denmark
Posts: 77
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med-line turnd up 0
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52bravo is offline
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06-07-2004, 08:01
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#12
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Auxiliary
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Odense Denmark
Posts: 77
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Re: NS Only
Quote:
Originally posted by Eagle5US
You can infuse Normal Saline rectally...this technique was widely utilized by the british in the Falklands.
The british military was significantly short qualified medical personnel trained in IV fluid therapy...
The tubing SANS NEEDLE can be placed into the COLON (this means past the rectal vault) through the anus. The "trick" is getting it up there far enough for the fluid to act as more than an enema.
The patient should already be significantly hypovolemic and unconscious, the tubing is wrapped around a finger and slid up into the rectum to the third knuckle as if doing a rectal exam...with the finger still in place and being used as a guide and barrier keeping the anus open, the tubing is slid forward to approximately where the first "Y" port junction is, or 12 inches...whichever comes first.
Digit removed, IV turned on full...
WHY THE HELL would they do something like this???
The function of the large intestine / colon is to absorb water from the slurry that is your fecal sludge...this way you can make little pellets and logs to marvel at and make funny faces when they come out.
If you are dehydrated / hypovolemic, it is thought that these microvilli in the colon will absorb at least SOME of the fluids and assist in your rehydration.
I am not aware of any scientific studies to support their practice...but in theory it makes sense. This WILL make your patient shit his pants though...just like an enema will because it will stimulate the evacuation response.
PA
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eagle5US: do you have a link, articel ect ti the UK army's rectal fun?
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52bravo is offline
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06-07-2004, 16:01
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#13
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 215
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x
Last edited by DoctorDoom; 07-29-2013 at 10:11.
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DoctorDoom is offline
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06-07-2004, 18:57
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#14
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally posted by DoctorDoom
One of the questions being debated by medical ethicists is if a person is DNR and when terminal has directed that they not receive IV hydration or paraenteral nutrition, whether the practice of pararectal hydration is ethical. It has been used in terminally ill patients so I don't see why it wouldn't work in other patients.
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Are you serious that people are questioning whether rectal infusion is ethical if a person has already stated refusal of IV fluids??? that seems ridiculous. That is like saying if you refuse oral intubation the nasal route would be acceptable...
cannot believe this even gets debated.
doc t.
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06-07-2004, 19:15
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa
Posts: 2,530
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc T
Are you serious that people are questioning whether rectal infusion is ethical if a person has already stated refusal of IV fluids??? that seems ridiculous. That is like saying if you refuse oral intubation the nasal route would be acceptable...
cannot believe this even gets debated.
doc t.
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Uhhhh..Hi Doc T 
Eagle
__________________
Primum non Nocere
"I have hung out in dangerous places a lot over the years, from combat zones to biker bars, and it is the weak, the unaware, or those looking for it, that usually find trouble.
Ain't no one getting out of this world alive. All you can do is try to have some choice in the way you go. Prepare yourself (and your affairs), and when your number is up, die on your feet fighting rather than on your knees. And make the SOBs pay dearly."
The Reaper-3 Sep 04
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Eagle5US is offline
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