'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

[Team Sergeant]

This is going to leave a mark....... now I've got a question, will this require another set of bathrooms on all military installations? (I'm sure glad I'm retired)



Military Veterans Push for Repeal of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'
President-elect Barack Obama faces a political and cultural issue that dogged former President Bill Clinton early in his administration

More than 100 retired generals and admirals called Monday for repeal of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays so they can serve openly, according to a statement obtained by The Associated Press.

The move by the military veterans confronts the incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama with a thorny political and cultural issue that dogged former President Bill Clinton early in his administration.

"As is the case with Great Britain, Israel, and other nations that allow gays and lesbians to serve openly, our service members are professionals who are able to work together effectively despite differences in race, gender, religion, and sexuality," the officers wrote.

While Obama has expressed support for repeal, he said during the presidential campaign that he would not do so on his own -- an indication that he would tread carefully to prevent the issue from becoming a drag on his agenda. Obama said he would instead work with military leaders to build consensus on removing the ban on openly gay service members.

"Although I have consistently said I would repeal 'don't ask, don't tell,' I believe that the way to do it is make sure that we are working through a process, getting the Joint Chiefs of Staff clear in terms of what our priorities are going to be," Obama said in a September interview with the Philadelphia Gay News.

Tommy Vietor, a spokesman for Obama's transition team, declined comment.

The issue of gays in the military became a flash point early in the Clinton administration as Clinton tried to fulfill a campaign promise to end the military's ban on gays. His efforts created the current compromise policy -- ending the ban but prohibiting active-duty service members from openly acknowledging they are gay.

But it came at a political cost. The resulting debate divided service members and veterans, put Democrats on the defensive and provided cannon fodder for social conservatives and Republican critics who questioned Clinton's patriotism and standing with the military.

Retired Adm. Charles Larson, a four-star admiral and two-time superintendent of the U.S. Naval Academy who signed the statement with 104 other retired admirals and generals, said in an interview that he believed Clinton's approach was flawed because he rushed to change military culture.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008...ask-dont-tell/

[The Reaper]

Let the drama begin....

TR

[Soft Target]

"This is going to leave a mark....... now I've got a question, will this require another set of bathrooms on all military installations?"

The Army only needs one latrine - E-TOOL!

[Team Sergeant]

The Army doesn't allow women to serve in combat units, with this in mind, as a leader, will you have to ask the gay soldier if he/she uses the boys or girls bathroom before he/she is assigned??

[Swoop]

"More than 100 retired generals and admirals called Monday for repeal of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays so they can serve openly, according to a statement obtained by The Associated Press."

Mighty bold of them to stand-up and support something they will not have to deal with. (I'm with you TS, glad I'm retired)

Just my .02

Swoop sends

[greenberetTFS]

GB TFS

[HOLLiS]

Originally Posted by Swoop

"More than 100 retired generals and admirals called Monday for repeal of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays so they can serve openly, according to a statement obtained by The Associated Press."

Mighty bold of them to stand-up and support something they will not have to deal with. (I'm with you TS, glad I'm retired)

Just my .02

Swoop sends

About my thoughts too. Also a big difference in 18 - 20 year old's and the more mature members on this issue. IMHO 18 -20 year old crowd will make things very interesting.


Maybe one day, the politicians will realize the military is not a social club, dating service or laboratory for social experiments.

H.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by HOLLiS

Maybe one day, the politicians will realize the military is not a social club, dating service or laboratory for social experiments.

H.

They will, right about the time that it sinks in that more people would rather not be in a military with additional genders and problems to deal with than the number of gays and lesbians who wish to be in the military.

Unfortunately, it will be too late as recruiting numbers drop and crazy policies proliferate.

How long till the commanders are forced to deal with HIV positive, sexually active gay service members, gay marriages to contend with, and gay partners demanding dependent ID cards, BAH at the with dependents rate, and requirements for "partners" to get government housing? Can't wait till the first pregnant "man" shows up at a medical facility near you for OB assistance.

TR

[Dozer523]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Let the drama begin....TR

Reaper, you have that crap right! "Drama" is ALL it is. Don't these retired folks have anything better to do with their time -- volunteer in schools, play cards, write books?
Can't we at least let Obama be CinC for a day or two? This issue was a lightning rod with the last Democratic / liberal administration. But, then somehow, it was a non-issue with the Bush adminstration. Because it was the "the law of the land"? Because the Republican administration didn't want to mess with it? (Point: It didn't matter for the last eight years.) This is just stirring it all up again. I know "don't ask don't tell" is not so great from the straight or gay perspective but it seems to work. (I suppose the "He-man" types want it back to being punishable under UCMJ and the "Flamings" probably want cadence to be called with a lisp.)
I wonder if "Retired Adm. Charles Larson, a four-star admiral and two-time superintendent of the U.S. Naval Academy who signed the statement with 104 other retired admirals and generals," really believes Clinton's approach was flawed because he (Clinton) rushed to change military culture. (it would appear that the Admiral is calling for open gayness in the uniformed services.) I understand that admirals are allowed cabin-boys, but even so this call from this quarter makes no sense. Until you remember that "The resulting debate divided service members and veterans, put Democrats on the defensive and provided cannon fodder for social conservatives and Republican critics who questioned Clinton's patriotism and standing with the military." Sorry, sounds like an ambush to me.

[Richard]

New nightmare scenario - being assigned as the PL/PSG for the 'Poofter' Platoon of a Service Company!

Happiness is--indeed--a blue ID card.

Richard's $.02

[abc_123]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Can't wait till the first pregnant "man" shows up at a medical facility near you for OB assistance.

TR

...don't say that too loud, or we're likely to get a new mens blue service maternity uniform!

[Airbornelawyer]

Is is not a bit suspicious that this just happened to come up and it wasn't President-elect Obama himself proposing it, but a group of retired officers? A hundred or so generals and admirals just happened to be chatting on MySpace one day last week and said "hey, how's about we do something about this 'gays in the military' thing?".

Remember in 1992 when then President-elect Clinton proposed it, given his own background and the hostility of many of his liberal supporters to the military, there was a huge backlash. So now Obama can just support a change of policy, and not have the backlash against him? Mighty convenient.

As for the officers themselves, it would not surprise me that there are quite a few generals and admirals whose careers, after the first few years, were completely divorced from having to think about unit cohesion and the brotherhood of arms.

[Puertoland]

What I'll never stop wondering, is why the hell they feel they need to tell everyone about there sexual preference, and feel they must be treated differently.

Can't they just shut the hell up, and do the job without having to expose a limp wrist, or talking like a tranny? This is something I am pretty opinionated about, and I'll make sure to keep from typing anything that is crossing the line, but I feel its completely unnecessary for people to tell the world about who/what they like.

They want it to be considered along the lines of race, they already receive enough preferential treatment.

They are not being hampered in their duties by not screaming out to the world about there personal business, so they should leave it as just that.

[JumpinJoe1010]

"The officers’ statement points to data showing there are about 1 million gay and lesbian veterans in the United States, and about 65,000 gays and lesbians currently serving in the military."


I am curious where they get these numbers if they are not allowed to ask?


http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/1...repeal_111708/

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by JumpinJoe1010

"The officers’ statement points to data showing there are about 1 million gay and lesbian veterans in the United States, and about 65,000 gays and lesbians currently serving in the military."


I am curious where they get these numbers if they are not allowed to ask?


http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/1...repeal_111708/

Probably based on the prison survey that showed 10% of inmates claiming they were gay, leading the homos to extrapolate that percentage to the entire population.

I suspect that it is far less.

Anyone who is a gay or lesbian and is serving either lied on their enlistment papers, didn't discover it till after joining and is abstaining, or is in violation of the law. Two of the three reflect dishonor, IMHO.

TR