Better Crank It Up, Boss

NousDefionsDoc · 06-04-2004, 14:06

**Razor** · 06-04-2004, 14:31

A perfect example of why he's exactly the wrong person to become commander-in-chief.

**Roguish Lawyer** · 06-04-2004, 14:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Razor
A perfect example of why he's exactly the wrong person to become commander-in-chief.

OK, but who is going to get this information out? Most of you guys aren't willing to talk about it. It's a devastating piece of information if you can find a reporter to run with it.

**Kyobanim** · 06-04-2004, 16:16

Invite one of the commie loving bastards in here and tell em to use the search button.

**The Reaper** · 06-04-2004, 16:56

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
LOL

Kerry Wants 40K More Green Hats

We already touched on this in another thread, but to repeat,

THERE IS NO WAY TO DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF SF SOLDIERS AND MAINTAIN THE STANDARDS!

We are taking kids right off the street at this moment to put into the meat grinder, and we still can't keep up with the losses. You let Kerry become President, and watch the real hemorraging start. They will have to implement a 4 year Stop Loss program.

Kerry probably figured that Special Forces handed out basketballs at the gym, and a Green Beret was created by handing out a hat.

TR

TR

Guy · 06-04-2004, 17:30

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
LOL

Kerry Wants 40K More Green Hats

You can't 40K people to pass the swim test, much lest join the military in the timeframe he hopes to propose.

06-04-2004, 18:04

Typical liberal Democrat, promise the mass of sheep what they want to hear...then have it killed by your cronies while in committee. It plays really well on the liberal media, time passes, no follow through, blame the other guys for killing your patriotic noble attempt to support our troops.

They are liars...their mouths are moving.

Maya

mffjm8509 · 06-04-2004, 18:31

Quote:

Originally posted by The Reaper

We are taking kids right off the street at this moment to put into the meat grinder, and we still can't keep up with the losses. You let Kerry become President, and watch the real hemorraging start. They will have to implement a 4 year Stop Loss program.

TR

TR

I agree completely here. I may stay in beyond 20 years with the current administration, but I will deffinately not stay in if JK gets elected. I've spent 8 years doing liberal peacekeeping operations already.

Please dont speak of another accross the board stop loss.......that action would hurt recruiting as well as retention

I belive the number was 1/2 SF and 1/2 CA, so even 20 thousand additional troops at current production numbers, (with paralell courses running simultaneously) could take 20 years to produce......

**Ambush Master** · 06-04-2004, 19:06

FIRST, I AM NOT DEFENDING THIS ASSHOLE !!!
You guys are mis-reading this, Kerry didn't say 40K SF.
Emphasis is mine.

"The new special forces units would be PART of a 40,000-troop expansion that Kerry called for last year and would come about through more aggressive recruiting, aides said, although there would be no new financial incentives to help the military fill its ranks. The new troops would not lead to more forces in Iraq or Afghanistan, Kerry said; they would replace troops, reservists, and guardsmen who have been on extended duty there. There are now 49,000 active, reserve, and Guard special-operations forces; Kerry's plan would add another

3,500 to 4,000 active-duty special forces."

But still at the current Training Production Rate, it would take quite a while !!

mffjm8509 · 06-04-2004, 19:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Ambush Master

Kerry said; they would replace troops, reservists, and guardsmen who have been on extended duty there. There are now 49,000 active, reserve, and Guard special-operations forces; Kerry's plan would add another 3,500 to 4,000 active-duty special forces."

But still at the current Training Production Rate, it would take quite a while !!

As I posted in antoher thread we nearly doubled our authorized POI "max class size" while I was out at camp mackall, and never saw that number of students.

IF, and thats a big IF, we could recruit the current quota into the pipeline, select the right ones, and train them to meet the established standard, it would take several years to meet the 3-4k increase in troops you mentioned.

Of course to meet this demand, the SWC will require additional instructors, which further decreases the number of operational guys.....

Its a never ending cycle.

mp

**The Reaper** · 06-04-2004, 19:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Ambush Master
FIRST, I AM NOT DEFENDING THIS ASSHOLE !!!
You guys are mis-reading this, Kerry didn't say 40K SF.
Emphasis is mine.

"The new special forces units would be PART of a 40,000-troop expansion that Kerry called for last year and would come about through more aggressive recruiting, aides said, although there would be no new financial incentives to help the military fill its ranks. The new troops would not lead to more forces in Iraq or Afghanistan, Kerry said; they would replace troops, reservists, and guardsmen who have been on extended duty there. There are now 49,000 active, reserve, and Guard special-operations forces; Kerry's plan would add another

3,500 to 4,000 active-duty special forces."

But still at the current Training Production Rate, it would take quite a while !!

Not to be disagreeable, but you are wrong, Sir.

3,500 roughly doubles the SF numbers, but it doesn't matter if he said 3,500, or 35,000,000.

We are putting everyone who has any possibility of successfully completing the course through the pipeline right now, even students with less than a 1% chance of success and kids off the street. We are still not filling the teams as fast as people are getting out.

You cannot get blood from a turnip, and you cannot make 3,500 more SF soldiers who meet the current standards of what remains, regardless of the additional resources dedicated unless you institute the draft and let us skim off the cream.

This is not my .02, this is factual.

TR

**Roguish Lawyer** · 06-04-2004, 19:41

Quote:

Originally posted by The Reaper
You cannot get blood from a turnip, and you cannot make 3,500 more SF soldiers who meet the current standards of what remains, regardless of the additional resources dedicated unless you institute the draft and let us skim off the cream.

Would substantially increasing pay for special operations forces help? Just a thought . . .

mffjm8509 · 06-04-2004, 19:53

Quote:

Originally posted by The Reaper

We are putting everyone who has any possibility of successfully completing the course through the pipeline right now, even students with less than a 1% chance of success and kids off the street. We are still not filling the teams as fast as people are getting out.

unless you institute the draft and let us skim off the cream.

TR

Too True.....

The recruiting standards expected of the kids off the street are higher than those of guys already in service. I belive that those high standards attract the right type of person from the start. Some dont make it, but the good ones do.

Once selected, everyone in the course is given the benifit of the doubt and trained accordingly. Still, the attrition rate is fairly high compared to standard US Army schools.

Even if a draft is instituted, the volunteer quality of the 18xers will be lost, as all will be forced into service. The same quality guys will show up, but a lot of time will be wasted on those who didnt desire to volunteer and persue this career on their own.

I've said "it cant be done" before, and ate me words, so I'll refrain from that......but we expanded to 5 active duty groups in the late 80s, and still havent been able to field full teams......the 18x program was supposed to fix that problem, but it will take years to evaluate the benifit of that........

I dont think it can be done......

mp

NousDefionsDoc · 06-04-2004, 19:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Would substantially increasing pay for special operations forces help? Just a thought . . .

Not the point - IMO, SF is already too big. The bigger you get, the less special you are. People start wanting to use in frontal assaults and crap like that. You lose focus on the mission.

It is 7th Special Forces Group, not the 7th Infantry Division or the 7th Ranger Regiment or the 7th Homosexual Tank Army and Queens Guards.

Less is more. As long as you get the cream like we are now.

mffjm8509 · 06-04-2004, 20:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Roguish Lawyer
Would substantially increasing pay for special operations forces help? Just a thought . . .

Am I the only guy in SF not motivated by $$$?

Sure, I like good TDY trips, and incentives are nice, but......

What about ammo, ranges, good training oportunities, not being micromanaged in an Infantry BN, being able to train MY guys on MY SOPs, to MY standards.....

What about being a member of the only professional NCO force recognized as the best trainers in the world.......

mp