FBI Calls Murder "Honor Killing"

[SF-TX]

I wonder how difficult it was to get the bureaucrats to approve this classification? The politically-correct backlash has already begun.

First Time FBI Calls Case an 'Honor Killing'

Tuesday , October 14, 2008
By Maxim Lott

Almost a year after two teenage girls were found dead — allegedly executed by their father — in the back seat of a taxicab in Texas, the FBI is saying for the first time that the case may have been an "honor killing."

Sarah Said, 17, and her sister Amina, 18, were killed on New Year's Day, but for nine months authorities deflected questions about whether their father — the prime suspect and the subject of a nationwide manhunt — may have targeted them because of a perceived slight upon his honor.


The girls' great-aunt, Gail Gartrell, says the girls' father killed them both because he felt they disgraced the family by dating non-Muslims and acting too Western, and she called the girls' murders an honor killing from the start.

But the FBI held off on calling it an honor killing until just recently, when it made Yaser Abdel Said the "featured fugitive" on its Web site.

"That's what I've been trying to tell everybody all along," Gartrell told FOXNews.com. "I would say that's a victory."

But some Muslims say that calling the case an honor killing goes too far.

"As far as we're concerned, until the motive is proven in a court of law, this is [just] a homicide," Mustafaa Carroll, the executive director of the Council of American-Islamic Relations in Dallas, told FOXNews.com.

He said he worries that terms like "honor killing" may stigmatize the Islamic community. “We (Muslims) don’t have the market on jealous husbands ... or domestic violence,” Carroll said.

The United Nations estimates that 5,000 women are killed worldwide every year in honor killings — mostly in the Middle East, where many countries still have laws that protect men who murder female relatives they believe have engaged in inappropriate activity. A U.N. report includes chilling examples of such cases.

“On the order of clerics, an 18-year-old woman was flogged to death in Batsail, Bangladesh, for "immoral behavior,” the report reads. “In Egypt, a father paraded his daughter's severed head through the streets shouting, ‘I avenged my honor.’”

But Islamic scripture in no way condones such actions, Carroll said.

"People have their own cultural nuances and norms from before they got their religion," he said. "This is not Islamic culture."

Regardless of whether religion itself is to blame, Gartrell said it is important that society recognizes the case as having a cultural element, just to prevent similar crimes in the future.

"That culture is so different," Gartrell said. "If people had been more educated about it, they would have known that when the girls told people, 'Dad wants to kill me' — they were serious."

Many of the threats against Sarah and Amina Said were known to their friends and classmates.

High school friends told the Dallas Morning News that the girls sometimes came in with welts and bruises, which they confided were inflicted by their father. One time, Yaser Said reportedly went into one daughter's bedroom waving a gun and making threats on her life.

After he threatened to kill one daughter in December 2007 — documented in text messages Sarah Said sent to a friend — the girls and their mother, Patricia, fled from their home in Lewisville, Texas, to Tulsa, Okla. But the mother soon had a change of heart and went back, leading to the tragedy on January 1. Some, including Gartrell, believe the mother may even have been complicit in the murders.

Dr. Phyllis Chasler, author of several books, including "The Death of Feminism: What's Next in the Struggle for Women's Freedom," said that the case fits the description of an honor killing.

"The premeditation, the family collaboration, and the particular rules (set for the girls) make this consistent with an honor killing — not just domestic violence,” she said.

She said she hoped that calling the case an "honor killing" might indicate a shift in attitude at the FBI.


"I think this may suggest that law enforcement is beginning to realize that they may have to treat these incidents differently if they are to either prevent or prosecute," Chasler told FOXNews.com.

She noted that the United Kingdom has a special police unit to deal with “honor-related violence,” and said that she hoped that the situation in the U.S. does not get to the point where that becomes necessary.

But an FBI spokesman played down the significance of the listing, saying that the change on the wanted listing was simply due to more information coming out about the case since it was first listed and that it shouldn't matter what the case is called.

"We're just looking at how do we find the guy?" said FBI special agent Mark White, media coordinator in the bureau's Dallas office.

Irving Police Department Public Information Officer David Tull agreed. "We just look at the facts. The man killed his two daughters. This is a domestic violence, multiple-capital murder case."

Tull said that, unfortunately, there have still been no sightings or major leads — a fact that distresses Gartrell.

"I'm very upset about it," said Gartrell, who argues that the case needs special consideration. "This is not a typical murder case. When a family member murders another family member to protect [the family] name — that's different."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,437502,00.html

[dennisw]

He said he worries that terms like "honor killing" may stigmatize the Islamic community.

I doubt if they are losing much sleep over it.

"People have their own cultural nuances and norms from before they got their religion," he said. "This is not Islamic culture."

I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. Interesting use of the term "nuance." Murdering your own daughters is nothing more than a culturnal nuance. I was beginning to think it was a henious crime, but all the time is was just a cultural nuance.

[Sigaba]

If a community is concerned about being stigmatized by terms like "honor killing", maybe it should do more to end practices that look "like" honor killing.

He said he worries that terms like "honor killing" may stigmatize the Islamic community.:

I don't see why it shouldn't cut both ways.

If it is all right to speak broadly of the culture of law enforcement and the practice of profiling, then why is not all right to speak of the culture of segments of the Muslim community and the practice of honor killings?

I'm of the belief that advocacy groups need to do a better job at picking their fights. Respect for cultural sensitivity should not be more important than the respect for human life and respect for the law.

[Richard]

Irving Police Department Public Information Officer David Tull agreed. "We just look at the facts. The man killed his two daughters. This is a domestic violence, multiple-capital murder case."

"I'm very upset about it," said Gartrell, who argues that the case needs special consideration. "This is not a typical murder case. When a family member murders another family member to protect [the family] name — that's different."

Guys,

Here in Texas, under Chapter 19 (Criminal Homicide), Title 5 (Offenses Against The Person) of the Penal Code:

§ 19.01. TYPES OF CRIMINAL HOMICIDE.

(a) A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual.

(b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.

§ 19.02. MURDER.

(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.

(d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second degree.

IMO, it is covered by existing law by whatever name you call it.

Richard's $.02

[Sigaba]

I wonder if the intent behind the statute is for scenarios in which a spouse is caught in the act by the defendant and then the defendant kills the spouse at "the time of the offense".

By contrast, if the defendant knows of an ongoing relationship and acts later in a premeditated fashion, would the defense of being under "the immediate influence of sudden passion" work?

Hopefully, a member of the bar could weigh in here.

Originally Posted by Richard

Irving Police Department Public Information Officer David Tull agreed. "We just look at the facts. The man killed his two daughters. This is a domestic violence, multiple-capital murder case."

"I'm very upset about it," said Gartrell, who argues that the case needs special consideration. "This is not a typical murder case. When a family member murders another family member to protect [the family] name — that's different."

Guys,

Here in Texas, under Chapter 19 (Criminal Homicide), Title 5 (Offenses Against The Person) of the Penal Code:

§ 19.01. TYPES OF CRIMINAL HOMICIDE.

(a) A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual.

(b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.

§ 19.02. MURDER.

(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.

(d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second degree.

IMO, it is covered by existing law by whatever name you call it.

Richard's $.02

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

I wonder if the intent behind the statute is...

Regarding intent and sudden passion...ever try reasoning with a teenager?

My sons found out that when they say "Whatever!" to an instruction from me, they have just pushed the button that sends my elevator directly to the penthouse!

Richard's $.02

[jw74]

The United Nations estimates that 5,000 women are killed worldwide every year in honor killings — mostly in the Middle East, where many countries still have laws that protect men who murder female relatives they believe have engaged in inappropriate activity. A U.N. report includes chilling examples of such cases.

"He said he worries that terms like "honor killing" may stigmatize the Islamic community. “We (Muslims) don’t have the market on jealous husbands ... or domestic violence,” Carroll said."

I hate it when empirical evidence leads to logical conlusions-er sorry- logical stigmatisms..

If you are in the market for a new computer, do some google research on CAIR. Then head to Best Buy to replace the computer you just tossed across the room.

[jw74]

Originally Posted by Richard

Regarding intent and sudden passion...ever try reasoning with a teenager?

My sons found out that when they say "Whatever!" to an instruction from me, they have just pushed the button that sends my elevator directly to the penthouse!

Richard's $.02

I drove my parents batty from age 15 to 17. They never tried to murder me. Im not sure what they considered though.

[Jgood]

Watched a news report this weekend on a muslim group pushing for Sharia law here in the USA.


Would not be surprised if this is a more common pratice in the furture

[Sigaba]

Sir,

Only in a classroom. Now, I count parking spaces for a living.

Originally Posted by Richard

Regarding intent and sudden passion...ever try reasoning with a teenager?

[SF-TX]

The FBI has removed any reference to "Honor Killing" on the wanted poster of Yaser Abdel Said. Apparently, the "Islam is a Religion of Peace" bureaucrats have caved to pressure to avoid linking violence committed by Muslims to Islam.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/...ers/said_y.htm

[SF-TX]

Pamela Geller, at Atlas Shrugs has documented the change. Here is what the wanted poster previously stated:

CAUTION

Yaser Abdel Said is wanted for murder. On January 1, 2008, Said took his two teenaged daughters for a ride in his taxi cab, under the guise of taking them to get something to eat. He drove them to a secluded park in Irving, Texas, where he allegedly shot both girls to death. They died of multiple gunshot wounds. The 17- and 18-year-old girls were dating American boys, which was contrary to their father's rules of not dating non-Muslim boys. Reportedly, the girls were murdered due to an "Honor Killing." Said may have fled to New York or Egypt.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...rted-a-pi.html

Here is the new poster:

CAUTION

Yaser Abdel Said is wanted for murder. On January 1, 2008, Said took his two teenaged daughters for a ride in his taxi cab, under the guise of taking them to get something to eat. He drove them to Irving, Texas, where he allegedly shot both girls to death. They died of multiple gunshot wounds. Said may have fled to New York or Egypt.

On January 2, 2008, a warrant was issued for the arrest of Yaser Abdel Said, in Dallas County, Dallas, Texas, on charges of Capital Murder-Multiple. On August 21, 2008, a federal Unlawful Flight to Avoid Prosecution warrant was issued by the United States District Court, Northern District of Texas, Dallas, Texas.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/...ers/said_y.htm

Pamela has also provided much more background information on the case. Information that would lead to a reasonable assumption that the murder of Amina and Sarah was indeed an honor killing.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...rted-a-pi.html

[SF-TX]

Fox News is airing a program titled "Honor Killing in America" tonight at 10:00 PM ET.

“Honor Killing” Dad Secretly Taped Girls

Posted By Danielle Cangelosi On August 6, 2010 @ 12:30 PM In U.S. | 309 Comments

On New Year’s Day 2008, two Texas teenagers Amina and Sarah Said were shot dead, their bloodied bodies left in a taxi cab. The alleged shooter: their father Yaser Said.

In fact, Sarah appears to identify her Dad as the murderer in a 9-11 call – her dying words.

For more than two years the Fox News Reporting team has been following this story and the search for Yaser Said, who vanished the night of the murders.

We learned this dark tale began long before the girls were born. Their mother Patricia married the Egyptian-born Said when she was only 15 years old. She says her husband violently abused her during their 20-year marriage.

Over the course of our investigation, Fox News’ Gregg Jarrett and I made multiple trips to Texas, taping hours of interviews with investigators, relatives and family friends.

We also obtained never-before-broadcast video of the girls that was secretly shot by their father. In light of what happened to Amina and Sarah, it’s extremely disturbing footage.

If Yaser Said killed his daughters, what was his motive? His American wife Tissy claims he did so because their girls were dating boys that weren’t Muslim.

While friends and family call the murders honor killings, it’s a label the FBI and local police have been hesitant to use.

In fact, 8 months after the deaths of Amina and Sarah the FBI added the words “honor killing” to their wanted poster but days later, removed them.

Click here for more on the story. [1]

In the hour, we also speak with former FBI counter-terrorism chief Steve Pomeranz and activist Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Both provided a broader perspective to this story.

Hirsi Ali – born a Muslim in Somalia, she was subjected to female circumcision as a child and fled to Europe in 1992 after refusing an arranged marriage. In 2003 she won a seat in the Dutch Parliament. The following year she wrote and co-produced a film about Islam's subjugation of women with director Theo van Gogh. Van Gogh was murdered by a radical Muslim, who pinned a note to Van Gogh's chest vowing that Hirsi Ali was next. Hirsi Ali fled again this time to the United States, where she lives under round-the-clock security but continues to be a forceful critic of Islam. She’s been following the Said case from the beginning.

Fox News Reporting: Honor Killing in America airs Friday August 6th at 10pm ET. [2]

http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2...y-taped-girls/

[Team Sergeant]

Be a damn shame to offend all the muslims, especially when it's only muslims that murder they own little girls over honor issues.....

1st degree

2nd degree

manslaughter

muslim honor killing's (little girls), slap on the wrist, no time served.

Anyone know or hear of muslim men honor killing their sons???? Didn't think so.....

[mark46th]

The louder someone complains about a perceived unfair labeling or act, the more accurate it is...