I wonder how disapointed they will be...

USANick7 · 10-07-2008, 12:46

I'm just curious, especially of those supporting Obama...

Just how disappointed are you going to be when Obama losses this election?

With each passing day we are greeted with a new poll compelling us to believe that Obama is going to win this thing hands down...just like Kerry did.

Am I really supposed to believe that North Carolina and Missouri are in play?

I mean I understand, I am supposed to buy into the notion that the entire country, almost over night has become so enchanted by Obama, that even conservative strongholds like North Carolina are rethinking the error of their individual liberty, free market, patriotic ways.

Why do they do this to themselves? Is it so they can claim voter fraud when their candidate of hope and change is done before we can even count the ballots on the west coast?

Personally I'm thrilled...

If there are any pollsters out there reading please catch this...

By all means keep your polls isolated to Boston and the Campus at UC Berkley. With every new poll that comes out McCain supporters become more aware of what is at stake, and Obama supporters are encouraged to stay home safe in their conviction of the overwhelming support he is receiving from an "objective" Newsweek poll.

Liberals are in for another upset, as they insist that their guy is the wave of the future, because the latest poll confirms it!

There are going to be some broken hearts come election day...so we conservatives might as well as prepare ourselves for the inevitable screams and calls for recounts...

I am already prepared for the claims of racism and voter fraud (as if conservatives could teach liberals ANYTHING about voter fraud).

Republicans have had a hard time in most every poll imaginable over the last 6 years...except of course for the ones taking place on election day...there we still fair pretty well.

jasonglh · 10-07-2008, 13:30

On election day I think by noon the MSM will start with their its all over now so that McCain voters will think their gas to the polls would be wasted.

just my unsolicited .02

greenberetTFS · 10-07-2008, 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by USANick7

I'm just curious, especially of those supporting Obama...

Just how disappointed are you going to be when Obama losses this election?

With each passing day we are greeted with a new poll compelling us to believe that Obama is going to win this thing hands down...just like Kerry did.

Am I really supposed to believe that North Carolina and Missouri are in play?

I mean I understand, I am supposed to buy into the notion that the entire country, almost over night has become so enchanted by Obama, that even conservative strongholds like North Carolina are rethinking the error of their individual liberty, free market, patriotic ways.

Why do they do this to themselves? Is it so they can claim voter fraud when their candidate of hope and change is done before we can even count the ballots on the west coast?

Personally I'm thrilled...

If there are any pollsters out there reading please catch this...

By all means keep your polls isolated to Boston and the Campus at UC Berkley. With every new poll that comes out McCain supporters become more aware of what is at stake, and Obama supporters are encouraged to stay home safe in their conviction of the overwhelming support he is receiving from an "objective" Newsweek poll.

Liberals are in for another upset, as they insist that their guy is the wave of the future, because the latest poll confirms it!

There are going to be some broken hearts come election day...so we conservatives might as well as prepare ourselves for the inevitable screams and calls for recounts...

I am already prepared for the claims of racism and voter fraud (as if conservatives could teach liberals ANYTHING about voter fraud).

Republicans have had a hard time in most every poll imaginable over the last 6 years...except of course for the ones taking place on election day...there we still fair pretty well.

USANick7,

Sounds pretty good to me.......

GB TFS

jamber97 · 10-07-2008, 15:36

Barack Obama needs more than liberal votes in order to win. I voted early and for Obama and believe it or not, I'm a registered Republican.

I couldn't find much scrutiny or analysis of Mccain in these forums which threw up a few red flags. I did a bit of research and came to the conclusion that we do indeed need a change.

What finally got me was Obamas voting record on veterans issues. He came thru considerably more times than MCcain, which surprised me.

Honestly as you can probably tell from my posts that I was barely a Republican if ever at all. I subscribed to the Bush philosophy on where to take the country, as given in his speeches, and history as governor. Bush vs. Gore was the first time I was motivated to register to vote and voted for Bush.

With out going into boring details, I feel that Bush didn't hold up to his end of the deal. I see a striking similarity between Bush and Mccain. Similarities in speeches, promises, philosophy, voting record and staff which makes me believe that history will repeat itself and the candidate won't hold true.

It's time to give the Democrats a chance to fall short of their promises.

**Pete** · 10-07-2008, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamber97

.....It's time to give the Democrats a chance to fall short of their promises.

Ah, they've been doing that since the 2006 elections. Ever hear of the promises Nacey P made?

Open? Cleaned up? Bipartisan? That's worth about 20

moobob · 10-07-2008, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamber97

came to the conclusion that we do indeed need a change.

I too want a change.

Most of our Presidents for the past 3 decades, save George H.W. Bush, have been state governors. I'm willing to vote in a Senator just to mix things up a bit.

+1 vote for McCain.

Change is often merely the illusion of progress.

Dozer523 · 10-07-2008, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by USANick7

I'm just curious, especially of those supporting Obama...

Just how disappointed are you going to be when Obama losses this election?

. . . Liberals are in for another upset, as they insist that their guy is the wave of the future, because the latest poll confirms it!

Republicans have had a hard time in most every poll imaginable over the last 6 years...except of course for the ones taking place on election day...there we still fair pretty well.

How disappointed am I going to be? Well disappointment is kind of a relative term. Let's see. Let's check the one of the "happy meters"

. The economy. That's been a little disappointing. The Dow dropped another 508 today after dropping 800 yesterday. It's down 3000 since May and off 4000 since a year ago. I guess the disOpoint-o-meter is in the red

. Can it get worse? Well, I guess that might ADD to my disappointment.
So will I be disappointed if Obama loses. Nah. (i'm really planning on voting for McCain -- REALLY) But I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if instead of trying to go IN to the White House, if John was copping a short-timer's attitude and thinking that in Jan09 he'd be retiring to help his wife run that brewery. I'm pretty sure he'd have left the place better then he found it. Yup, I wish he had a little better luck in the 2000 Primary.

And finally to "except of course for the ones taking place on election day...there we still fair pretty well" I wish I could say it had worked out as well for my happy meters.

**The Reaper** · 10-07-2008, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamber97

It's time to give the Democrats a chance to fall short of their promises.

If you had served under a more moderate Dem, Jimmy Carter, you might feel differently.

I am not willing to risk my children's lives on the appeasing, far-left, Socialist candidate with the haters for his advisers.

You earlier admitted that you needed to do some more research on the history and positions of Obama. Now it would appear that you have made your choice before you had to. Congratulations. I call this action irresponsible.

I sincerely hope that we do not all have cause to regret this decision.

TR

Paslode · 10-07-2008, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamber97

Barack Obama needs more than liberal votes in order to win. I voted early and for Obama and believe it or not, I'm a registered Republican.

I couldn't find much scrutiny or analysis of Mccain in these forums which threw up a few red flags. I did a bit of research and came to the conclusion that we do indeed need a change.

What finally got me was Obamas voting record on veterans issues. He came thru considerably more times than MCcain, which surprised me.

Honestly as you can probably tell from my posts that I was barely a Republican if ever at all. I subscribed to the Bush philosophy on where to take the country, as given in his speeches, and history as governor. Bush vs. Gore was the first time I was motivated to register to vote and voted for Bush.

Ayers, Wright, Rezko and many others, as well as his work with ACORN are a valid reason to question Obama what his intentions truly are. Don't think so? What would think of McCain if he Pal'd around with David Duke and attended KKK meetings for 20 years?

With out going into boring details, I feel that Bush didn't hold up to his end of the deal. I see a striking similarity between Bush and Mccain. Similarities in speeches, promises, philosophy, voting record and staff which makes me believe that history will repeat itself and the candidate won't hold true.

It's time to give the Democrats a chance to fall short of their promises.

The President doesn't make the laws, pass bills, include earmarks or raise/lower taxes....Your Congress and Senate do. Obamas promises of HOPE and CHANGE are pipe dreams, nothing he talks about will happen without the approval of our Lawmakers making it happen.

And the fact is that for the past 2 years the Democrats have had the majority and have had the oppourtunity to make changes and they haven't done squat.

Paslode · 10-07-2008, 19:55

Wright, Ayers, Rezko and ACORN are all valid reasons to doubt the substance of Obama. If you think not, consider how you would feel if McCain pal'd around with David Duke and was member of the KKK for 20 years.

Sigaba · 10-08-2008, 00:12

I am not sure what you mean by this statement. What precisely threw up the red flags and what did the flags say?

If you meant that Senator McCain hasn't received analysis here, I respectfully disagree. Senator McCain has been the focus of intense and informed scrutiny on this forum.

Several examples follow:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=2954

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=13618

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=8746

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...st.php?p=78692

If you decide to pursue seriously your interest in how the modern American presidency works, The Presidency of James Earl Carter, Jr. (second revised ed.) may be worthy of your attention.

The work illustrates the complexities of the federal government, the difficulties a self-proclaimed outsider/reformer faces once he gets to Washington, and how a president's personality traits can quickly become flaws, especially if he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

The book also spends time discussing how a candidate who presented himself as many things to many different types of people ended up disappointing almost all of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamber97

I couldn't find much scrutiny or analysis of Mccain in these forums which threw up a few red flags.

USANick7 · 10-08-2008, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamber97

Barack Obama needs more than liberal votes in order to win. I voted early and for Obama and believe it or not, I'm a registered Republican.

I couldn't find much scrutiny or analysis of Mccain in these forums which threw up a few red flags. I did a bit of research and came to the conclusion that we do indeed need a change.

What finally got me was Obamas voting record on veterans issues. He came thru considerably more times than MCcain, which surprised me.

Honestly as you can probably tell from my posts that I was barely a Republican if ever at all. I subscribed to the Bush philosophy on where to take the country, as given in his speeches, and history as governor. Bush vs. Gore was the first time I was motivated to register to vote and voted for Bush.

With out going into boring details, I feel that Bush didn't hold up to his end of the deal. I see a striking similarity between Bush and Mccain. Similarities in speeches, promises, philosophy, voting record and staff which makes me believe that history will repeat itself and the candidate won't hold true.

It's time to give the Democrats a chance to fall short of their promises.

This might as well be identical to one of your first posts here where you offered to explain to us all why an Obama presidency would yield long term benefits...

We are still waiting for you to make good on that promise.

And you have been provided adequate analysis regarding the key questions of this election, you simply didn't like the answers.

As I have watched these interactions, I can honestly state, that I cant recall you carrying one to fruition. You simply would leave an argument when it became apparent that you had lost the upper hand, only to reappear with a slightly modified argument later.

The people here have been giving you an analysis of conservatism, more so then John McCain; there is a very simple reason for this.

Conservatives watch for the message, and then the person delivering it. For liberals it appears to be all about style, i.e. the complete reverse.

Your experimental notion of government is quite frankly naive.

For you to suggest that its time to "give the democrats a try" simply because they are not republicans is absurd.

A responsible voter determines what politician they will vote for not based solely off the personality and promises of the person, but based off their stated world view.

From what you have said on this site, it is a wonder why you ever voted for Bush in the first place.

Your positions are decidedly socialist leaning economically. Internationalist- foreign policy wise, and liberal-socially.

Where as most of the people you have been debating with here are capitalist- economically, nationalist- foreign policy wise and moderate to conservative- socially.

Now if that is an accurate description of your political philosophy, then by all means vote for Obama. But lets not pretend, that your opposition to McCain has anything to do with arguments or scrutiny leveled on this site.

Let us also stop pretending that your choice of Obama, was the result of some rugged philosophical search where by you realized that even though your a republican, it was time to give Democrats a go.

Nothing you have written on these pages would have ever lead me to believe that you were a republican.

So either you weren't paying attention then, or your not paying attention now. But you really need to determine your worldview. Based off that world view, determine a political philosophy, based off that political philosophy choose a candidate.

It just gets under my skin when I hear someone say "its time to give the other guys a shot". This isn't a question of putting in the rookie pitcher in the bottom of the 9th. Responsible people don't retry what they've already seen fail time and time again, hoping that this time it will work.

And in this case, you are talking about electing a man that would FUNDAMENTALLY alter the way this country does business. He is seeking to weaken individual liberty, and responsibility. He is seeking to weaken individual economic freedom, which as you may recall was a HUGE reason why this country was founded. His solutions are across the board BIG GOVERNMENT.

I don't know how much traveling you've done in your life but I done a bit. And to allot of places people don't generally go to vacation. American is NOT the rule, it is the exception. the reason for that is our religious, economic and political institutions. Now we have someone that wants to ignore the first, completely change the second and drastically alter the balance of power in the third. I have seen that done everywhere where poverty and strife are rampant.

Americans are not genetically superior to other peoples. The only thing that sets us apart are those institutions I mentioned above. Fundamentally alter those, and it will take generations to correct the mistakes, if you ever fully recover.

jamber97 · 10-08-2008, 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigaba

I am not sure what you mean by this statement. What precisely threw up the red flags and what did the flags say?

If you meant that Senator McCain hasn't received analysis here, I respectfully disagree. Senator McCain has been the focus of intense and informed scrutiny on this forum.

Several examples follow:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=2954

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=13618

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=8746

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...st.php?p=78692

If you decide to pursue seriously your interest in how the modern American presidency works, The Presidency of James Earl Carter, Jr. (second revised ed.) may be worthy of your attention.

The work illustrates the complexities of the federal government, the difficulties a self-proclaimed outsider/reformer faces once he gets to Washington, and how a president's personality traits can quickly become flaws, especially if he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

The book also spends time discussing how a candidate who presented himself as many things to many different types of people ended up disappointing almost all of them.

Thank you for posting that last link, I had missed that one. I see a Obama Presidency to be more like a Clinton Presidency than a Carter Presidency. Clinton raised taxes and we saw one of the greatest economic expansions in our history.

USANick7 · 10-08-2008, 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamber97

Thank you for posting that last link, I had missed that one. I see a Obama Presidency to be more like a Clinton Presidency than a Carter Presidency. Clinton raised taxes and we saw one of the greatest economic expansions in our history.

Jamber that has got to be one of the most simplistic and absurd correlation vs. causation arguments I have seen on this site.

But let me make sure, before this firestorm starts...

Are you honestly suggesting that it was Clinton's tax raises that fueled the economic boom of the 90's?

**Pete** · 10-08-2008, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamber97

..... Clinton raised taxes and we saw one of the greatest economic expansions in our history.

Jamber - read this

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1223...s_opinion_main

What are your views on this story?