Go Back   Professional Soldiers ® > Area Studies > Africa

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS
Old 07-25-2008, 06:32   #1
JJ_BPK
Quiet Professional
 
JJ_BPK's Avatar
 
JJ_BPK is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NOVA
Posts: 8,888
Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS

"That the problem with Africa is Africans and that aid won't cure it is a truth that almost everyone skates around. One Compassionate Irish columnist has finally had enough of the prevarications, however, and has spoken out." Hibernia Girl

I have a rather dicey editorial I would like you to read and I would enjoy and encourage your comments.

The writer is Kevin Myers, a well published Irish journalist, currently writing for the Irish Independent. Kevin talks about his experiences in Africa and his thoughts of Africa's future. Kevin is well traveled in Africa, including trips during the famine years in the 80'tys when Bob Geldof was active with the Feed The World campaign. The population of Ethiopia has doubled because of that effort,, and they are still starving. And that is what Kevin talks about...

Kevin's ideas about World population growth are real, they need vocalization. It's a problem we need to get the World to address, because population growth is not just an isolated African problem. Pick any news source in the world and read about immigration "reform" and social welfare..

Warning: The topic(s) as discussed by Kevin may be offensive to those with: Conservative Religious Convictions, Left Leaning Socialist Ideologies, and most anyone with who think their fellow man is not the problem. The rest of us can start to contemplate the inevitable..

Comment: I did not "correct" any of the European spelling.

From Kevin's wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Myers

STYLE: Myers' Irish Times articles were often in contrast to its editorial
position, which led to some conflict with his editors. In early January
2005, the Irish Times refused to publish a column in which he accused the
Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) of responsibility for the Northern
Bank robbery. The column was later published by the Daily Telegraph. He
often advocates support for the United States, though he is sometimes
critical of the foreign policies of the Bush administration. He ultimately
endorsed the 2003 invasion of Iraq. He has praised George W. Bush, but has
also described him as 'mad'. He is frequently critical of anti-war
activists. Myers is skeptical of the viability of multiculturalism and
favours limits on immigration to prevent the growth of racial tension in
Ireland. He has criticised the Catholic Church in many pieces, and favours
the legalisation of prostitution. In recent articles he has been critical of
Islamic fundamentalism and extremism. In his journalism Myers has opposed
the classification of Travellers as an ethnic minority, and has opposed
feminist philosophy and the role of trade unions in setting economic policy.
He has written against the compensation culture and has opposed state
policies towards the Irish language.


Africa is giving nothing to anyone -- apart from AIDS, By Kevin Myers,
Thursday, July 24, 2008

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...s-1430428.html

No. It will not do. Even as we see African states refusing to take action
to restore something resembling civilisation in Zimbabwe, the begging bowl
for Ethiopia is being passed around to us, yet again. It is nearly 25 years
since Ethiopia's (and Bob Geldof's) famous Feed The World campaign, and in
that time Ethiopia's population has grown from 33.5 million to 78 million
today.

So why on earth should I do anything to encourage further catastrophic
demographic growth in that country? Where is the logic? There is none. To be
sure, there are two things saying that logic doesn't count. One is my
conscience, and the other is the picture, yet again, of another wide-eyed
child, yet again, gazing, yet again, at the camera, which yet again,
captures the tragedy of . . . Sorry. My conscience has toured this territory
on foot and financially. Unlike most of you, I have been to Ethiopia; like
most of you, I have stumped up the loot to charities to stop starvation
there. The wide-eyed boy-child we saved, 20 years or so ago, is now a
priapic, Kalashnikov-bearing hearty, siring children whenever the whim takes
him.

There is, no doubt a good argument why we should prolong this predatory
and dysfunctional economic, social and sexual system; but I do not know what
it is. There is, on the other hand, every reason not to write a column like
this. It will win no friends, and will provoke the self-righteous wrath of,
well, the self-righteous, letter-writing wrathful, a species which never
fails to contaminate almost every debate in Irish life with its sneers and
its moral superiority. It will also probably enrage some of the finest men
in Irish life, like John O'Shea, of Goal; and the Finucane brothers, men
whom I admire enormously. So be it.

But, please, please, you self-righteously wrathful, spare me mention of
our own Famine, with this or that lazy analogy. There is no comparison.
Within 20 years of the Famine, the Irish population was down by 30pc. Over
the equivalent period, thanks to western food, the Mercedes 10-wheel truck
and the Lockheed Hercules, Ethiopia's has more than doubled.

Alas, that wretched country is not alone in its madness. Somewhere, over
the rainbow, lies Somalia, another fine land of violent, Kalashnikov-toting,
khat-chewing, girl-circumcising, permanently tumescent layabouts. Indeed, we
now have almost an entire continent of sexually hyperactive indigents, with
tens of millions of people who only survive because of help from the outside
world.

This dependency has not stimulated political prudence or commonsense.
Indeed, voodoo idiocy seems to be in the ascendant, with the next president
of South Africa being a firm believer in the efficacy of a little tap water
on the post-coital penis as a sure preventative against infection. Needless
to say, poverty, hunger and societal meltdown have not prevented idiotic
wars involving Tigre, Uganda, Congo, Sudan, Somalia, Eritrea etcetera.

Broad brush-strokes, to be sure. But broad brush-strokes are often the way
that history paints its gaudier, if more decisive, chapters. Japan, China,
Russia, Korea, Poland, Germany, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in the 20th
century have endured worse broad brush-strokes than almost any part of
Africa. They are now -- one way or another -- virtually all giving aid to or
investing in Africa, whereas Africa, with its vast savannahs and its lush
pastures, is giving almost nothing to anyone, apart from AIDS.

Meanwhile, Africa's peoples are outstripping their resources, and causing
catastrophic ecological degradation. By 2050, the population of Ethiopia
will be 177 million: The equivalent of France, Germany and Benelux today,
but located on the parched and increasingly protein-free wastelands of the
Great Rift Valley.

So, how much sense does it make for us actively to increase the adult
population of what is already a vastly over-populated, environmentally
devastated and economically dependent country? How much morality is there in
saving an Ethiopian child from starvation today, for it to survive to a life
of brutal circumcision, poverty, hunger, violence and sexual abuse,
resulting in another half-dozen such wide-eyed children, with comparably
jolly little lives ahead of them? Of course, it might make you feel better,
which is a prime reason for so much charity. But that is not good enough.

For self-serving generosity has been one of the curses of Africa. It has
sustained political systems which would otherwise have collapsed. It
prolonged the Eritrean-Ethiopian war by nearly a decade. It is inspiring
Bill Gates' programme to rid the continent of malaria, when, in the almost
complete absence of personal self-discipline, that disease is one of the
most efficacious forms of population-control now operating. If his programme
is successful, tens of millions of children who would otherwise have died in
infancy will survive to adulthood, he boasts. Oh good: then what?I know. Let
them all come here. Yes, that's an idea.
__________________
Go raibh tú leathuair ar Neamh sula mbeadh a fhios ag an diabhal go bhfuil tú marbh

"May you be a half hour in heaven before the devil knows you’re dead"
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-25-2008, 07:53   #2
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
The Reaper is offline
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,241
I think he is one of the few writers I have read who is delivering the unvarnished truth.

Nature is a cruel mistress, and one day, her reckoning will come.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-25-2008, 08:01   #3
Caleb
SF Candidate
 
Caleb is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 15
I think he's saying what a lot of people want to say. The article makes me slightly uncomfortable, but it does raise some very compelling points.
__________________
Find a way or make one.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-25-2008, 15:53   #4
JacobGL
SF Candidate
 
JacobGL is offline
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 66
True.
__________________
"The trick is to make yourself an instrument of your own policy. Whether you like it or not, that's the highest effectivness man has achieved" Norman Mailer

"Now go do PT" Surgicalcric

"You can cry, just don't quit" Andy Petranek
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-25-2008, 16:02   #5
BryanK
Guerrilla Chief
 
BryanK's Avatar
 
BryanK is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: VA
Posts: 851
I agree wholeheartedly. Some may construe this as "bashing", but the truth hurts. If America was the same way demographically, I would hope that any logical person would concur.
__________________
"1000 days of evasion are better than one day in captivity"

"Too many men work on parts of things. Doing a job to completion, satisfies me."- Richard Proenneke
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-25-2008, 16:35   #6
FMF DOC
Guerrilla
 
FMF DOC's Avatar
 
FMF DOC is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 418
Agree 110% with the article and your comments,,, Lets see how far this gets and how many networks pick up this story. I'm betting little to none. Big Brother doesn't like it when the truth comes out.
__________________
Sometimes you must do dark things to get to the light. "unknown"
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-25-2008, 20:23   #7
frostfire
Area Commander
 
frostfire's Avatar
 
frostfire is offline
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: land of Airborne and Special Operations
Posts: 1,868
is there any fan of the Saw movies? The moral of the movies apply here:

You can't help those who who won't help themselves.

*Having said this, I do know few African immigrants who contributed to the science and technology development in this country. IIRC, there was also an 18X-ray who's an immigrant from Sudan who died for this country. Nevertheless, broad brush, yet still the truth.
__________________
"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4

"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins

"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle

Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.

INDNJC
  Reply With Quote

Yet..."Black" Americans...
Old 07-27-2008, 02:28   #8
Guy
Quiet Professional
 
Guy's Avatar
 
Guy is online now
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,639
Post Yet..."Black" Americans...

Embrace Africa as the "Mother" land!

I'll stick with the USofA as my "mother" land! "Mom has been pretty good to me!"

Stay safe.
__________________
“It is better to have sheep led by a lion than lions led by a sheep.”

-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-27-2008, 09:44   #9
exsquid
Quiet Professional
 
exsquid is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lower Alabama
Posts: 452
When the colonial powers left Africa, the Africans kept the worst part of the European system, namely minority rule & systemic corruption, combined it with the worst part of their own "culture", tribalism & superstition, and created history's largest shit sandwich. IMO, they are absolutely beyond help.

x/S
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-27-2008, 10:23   #10
uboat509
Quiet Professional
 
uboat509's Avatar
 
uboat509 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 333
I have been to Chad and have done county studies on several other North and West African countries and I came to the conclusion long ago that we cannot save Africa until Africa decides that it wants to be saved. It reminds me of a strung out, worn down but highly talented singer who has emphysema at age 24. Everybody feels sorry for her and they want to help her so they keep sending her to rehab but until she decides to get clean they are just burning money.

SFC W
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-31-2008, 02:58   #11
nmap
Area Commander
 
nmap's Avatar
 
nmap is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 2,760
Africa faces a problem called environmental overshoot. A book, circa the 1980's, titled "Overshoot" and written by Catton speaks to the problem. One can get some idea of the likely outcome of the situation by looking at the fate of the reindeer on St. Matthew's Island. In the case of Africa, aid merely extends and exacerbates the problem of overshoot.

The underlying problem was and is exponential growth. As long as a population continues growing, it will ultimately outgrow the ability of the environment to sustain it. The correction among species other than people invariably involves a massive dieoff; in the case of the reindeer mentioned above, population went from around 50, to 6,000 - and then back to 50.

Can innovation change the pattern? If the world taught Africa better ways to farm, would that solve the problem? I think not, though I realize my view will be in a minority. For the last 60 years or so, the fruits of the U.S. Agriculture Department's Green Revolution have supplied the world with cheap and abundant food. Notice that global population increased over that time from about 2 billion to the present 6.5 billion. If the foundation of the Green Revolution changes, the implications for the global population, as well as the geopolitical situation, become rather interesting - because the rest of the world continues increasing its population too. So far, our innovations - the Green Revolution - have permitted us to avoid the consequences. Will new innovations continue to stave off Malthus' predictions? I doubt it; but I guess we'll find out in the next 25 years or so.
__________________
Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero

Acronym Key:

MOO: My Opinion Only
YMMV: Your Mileage May Vary
ETF: Exchange Traded Fund


Oil Chart

30 year Treasury Bond
  Reply With Quote

Africa will not change!!!!!!!
Old 07-31-2008, 04:51   #12
Guy
Quiet Professional
 
Guy's Avatar
 
Guy is online now
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,639
Post Africa will not change!!!!!!!

At least not in my life time.

You can read and study about Africa until you're BLUE in the face; 10 years from now, they'll be worst off unless...

Some "modern-age" country installs a dictator that's NOT corrupt.

Haiti is still a shit-hole and we put that bastard Aristide back in there; look where he's at now.

Oh well...stay safe.
__________________
“It is better to have sheep led by a lion than lions led by a sheep.”

-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
  Reply With Quote

...and?
Old 07-31-2008, 05:55   #13
Geenie
Guerrilla
 
Geenie is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 155
Question ...and?

I admire Meyers' boldness in stating what needs to be said, namely that the current strategy in Africa isn't working. I regret, however, that he doesn't offer any kind of proposed solution, except maybe an implicit "just let them die" --
I will concede that many people need to be "woken up" and made to realize that merely giving more food to an increased population will not solve the problem in the long term, but instead result in another increase in population. However, I predict that Meyers states the truth a little bit too aggressively for it to be agreeable for the sheeple that make up most of our society. That's a different matter though.

Clearly the problem in these countries is corruption. We see the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq, namely international money not winding up where it's intended to go.
In my opinion the international community's responsibility ends at the doorstep of the nation in question the minute the aid is handed over. Clearly we cannot invade a country and say "You make sure the money winds up in the right hands, or else!", but, to be fair, neither can the sick, poor, uneducated, wide-eyed families living in rural Africa. I don't know if it's quite fair to cite the old "You can't help someone who won't help themselves" - I would argue that where there is corruption there is oppression and when there is oppression it is hard for the people to rise up. Look at the "elections" in Zimbabwe.

So what can be done? It's easy to say "do nothing and let the situation resolve itself" -- I'm sure many of the people on this board are aware of the kind of consequences that can arise when you leave a country unchecked.

EDIT: logic.

Last edited by Geenie; 07-31-2008 at 08:46.
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-31-2008, 06:32   #14
nmap
Area Commander
 
nmap's Avatar
 
nmap is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 2,760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geenie View Post
Clearly the problem in these countries is corruption.
But is it really? As an experiment, let us suppose a perfect country with perfect, wise, and absolutely honest leadership. (Talk about an extreme assumption....).

In the experiment, the aid gets to the intended recipients. People act as they usually do, with the net result of more people. In addition, health aid might get through, resulting in decreased mortality, both infant and otherwise. Therefore, the population should increase at a rate at least as high as Nigeria - which is 2.38%. If we round that up to 2.4%, in just 30 years the population will double.

I question whether any leadership, anywhere, can uplift a country for the existing population plus the rapidly expanding new population. I question whether aid can keep up with such increases. By putting off the problem, we make the problem worse - and honest leaders would paradoxically make things worse.

It's true that no one likes to hear the conclusion. And I agree that people will not accept it. The results should be interesting.
__________________
Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero

Acronym Key:

MOO: My Opinion Only
YMMV: Your Mileage May Vary
ETF: Exchange Traded Fund


Oil Chart

30 year Treasury Bond
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-31-2008, 08:15   #15
The Reaper
Quiet Professional
 
The Reaper's Avatar
 
The Reaper is offline
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geenie View Post
I admire Meyers' boldness in stating what needs to be said, namely that the current strategy in Africa isn't working. I regret, however, that he doesn't offer any kind of proposed solution, except maybe an implicit "just let them die" --
I will concede that many people need to be "woken up" and made to realize that merely giving more food to an increased population will not solve the problem in the long term, but instead result in another increase in population. However, I predict that Meyers states the truth a little bit too aggressively for it to be agreeable for the sheeple that make up most of our society. That's a different matter though.

Clearly the problem in these countries is corruption. We see the same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq, namely international money not winding up where it's intended to go.
In my opinion the international community's responsibility ends at the doorstep of the nation in question the minute the aid is handed over. Clearly we cannot invade a country and say "You make sure the money winds up in the right hands, or else!", but, to be fair, neither can the sick, poor, uneducated, wide-eyed families living in rural Africa. I don't know if it's quite fair to cite the old "You can't help someone who won't help themselves" - I would argue that where there is corruption there is oppression and when there is oppression it is hard for the people to rise up. Look at the "elections" in Zimbabwe.

So what can be done? It's easy to say "do nothing and let the situation resolve itself" -- I'm sure many of the people on this board are aware of the kind of consequences that can arise when you leave a country unchecked. Afghanistan and Iraq being points in case, in my opinion.
I think your youth and idealism are shining through.

The issue is not just corruption, but social irresponsibility. Of course, look at the problems even a tightly controlled country like China has enforcing the "one child" policy.

If you (and your neighbors) breed like lemmings, you should expect the same sort of periodic population correction, and there is nothing we can, or necessarily should do about it. The population will continue to increase until we can no longer feed them all, at which point our nation could collapse as well.

I fail to see the connection between the situations in Iraq and Afghanistan and gross overpopulation in Africa.

TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910

De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2017
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 23:36.



Copyright 2004-2017 by Professional Soldiers ®
Site Designed, Maintained, & Hosted by Hilliker Technologies